Thread: LMGs9 Aug 2014, 23:36 PM
Well I'm not an expert but when some of you guys are saying that the idea of LMGs DPS spreaded across whole unit was tested before and it turns out it was a terrible idea I'd say let's not go this route again. |
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1v1, 2v2. |
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Cons supported by Maxim into doctrinal infantry works well for me.
You need to remember however that Maxim requires a lot of micro and you will have to re position 2-3 times per engagement. Spamming Maxims is easier but makes you more vulnerable to counters (in terms of 1v1, team games your team mate should cover for you).
Later when you see OKW player went for Jagdpanzers go for T4 and use SU-85. Use Katyusha to soften OKW defenses or barrage infantry on approach.
One more thing, early game make sure you prioritize Sturmpioneers over Volks, if you see OKW player spamming SP go Shocks, if you see more Volks go Guards. |
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Another proposal:
Make ISU so it's similar to Sturmtiger. Mechanics wise. |
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It's the squad wiping what's the biggest problem with ISU.
Your Vet3 infantry is getting killed from across the map and you don't even know where to attack. Combine this with 2 ZiS that can withstand incredible amount of firepower and you can't do anything, not even flank the bloody thing with your tanks.
I will start with supposed to be coming changes to Soviet weapon teams and maybe some reload increase?
I believe call ins changes would adjust ISU as well, delaying its arrival.
What I don't like in CoH2 meta the most right now is that all medium tanks are almost non existent right now because everyone is stalling game waiting for super heavies to arrive. |
The old SU85, and by hence T4, was indeed the soviet meta long ago. But it was because SU85 was OP thanks to its acceleration that enabled fast attacks and retreats, making it (well microed) unflankeable.
Now SU85 post nerf is a clunky tank, that does a mediocre job as tank hunter because its speed doesn't match its lack of armour. Give it the frontal armor of a Jadgpanther or the Jackson's speed, but right now it is only useful in narrow maps, what is precisely the maps where ZiS does better, so both units overlap in their function being one of them cheaper.
And Katyusha kills infantry, indeed... but randomly. Some barrages wipes half enemy team, some others don't do anything at all. Nobody wants to gamble making an expensive and absolutely fragile unit that sometimes fails spectacularly. At least with Stuka and Pwerfer you now that everything under the barrage area will be seriously damaged. Katyusha is not a bad unit but it is very unreliable.
So, in T4 we have an useless unit (SU76), an unreliable one (Katyusha) and one which a T2 unit does approximately the same function (SU85). And all them are useless by themselves, any enemy tank or infantry with schrecks can destroy them.
It's not surprise that soviet players prefer T3 whose units, althought doesn't shine in anything, can defend by itselves and they make a great support for infantry and call-ins.
tl;dr
T4 is currently useless. Soviet players will continue using IS2 and ISU152 as heavy tanks because the main tank is T34 which can't do shit against the axis heavys.
Again T4 and especially SU85 is not useless and recent patch only proved it. It can deal with everything up to Tiger, Tiger including. You shouldn't expect for it to go toe to toe with Elephant same you wouldn't expect for SU76 to go against Stug.
Once again call ins outshines everything due to resources savings you can achieve and that's the real problem.
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SU85 is extremely bulky, slow and lacks a decent frontal armor to match its slow speed. Btw, its pen values and price are not magnificent if compared with soviet call-ins. When most axis AT power comes from schrecks blobs, you realize that SU85 doesn't do the job at all.
Katyusha is still a RNG arty that sometimes can fail spectacularly even at close range. It's a huge and bulky unit and can be one-shotted and destroyed by everything except small weapon. It isn't useful for dealing with attacking infantry, and the most you can achieve with them is to punish camping players or break havok on a OKW heal truck.
Against no-braindead players, only the first 4 rockets will do damage, while other mobile arty units can concetrate all its fire power in a single barrage.
Su76, no comments.
In resume, going T4 means no AI power, as katyusha fires with unpredected results every 110 seconds (Hi, Mr.overnerf) and once flanked it will be destroyed without any chance to escape. With axis infantry raping all soviet infantry except shocks, you will need armored AI power, yes or yes.
And SU85 is a microintensive unit unable to kill heavys like Elefant or Jadgtiger, even in packs, due to its slow speed, lack of armor and non-rotatory turret. Moreover, you can't be aggresive with them as they're a terrible flanking unit.
T4 means playing defensively, which is terrible for soviets which rely in being aggressive against the axis better lategame units.
It's much safer to make T34s and make up for its lacking AT power with Mark Vehicle, ZiS and guards.
Sorry but I disagree. Back in the day T4 was the only Soviet tool to deal with tanks because T34 couldn't deal with anything else than a PzIV and this didn't change. Katyusha still works against infantry. Tested myself in recent game. It's not game braking unit anymore so o know it hurts.
You actuality repeated my argument yourself saying it's easier and better to go call ins than T4. |
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Doesn't it work similar to ZiS Vet1?
It will track a tank, allowing you to fire at it up to certain range even when in fog of war. |
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Can you guys just stop with this Soviet T4 is crap nonsense?
It got very solid AT option in terms of SU-85 and a solid AI option in terms of Katyusha. The only unit that's somehow strange is SU-76 but that's because of the unit design.
The only reason people don't go T4 is due to call ins being better and more economical option that allows you to save resources and still get very good tanks.
You're getting more for less. |
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Playing recently and having to fight heavy Maxim spam almost every game I can into a conclusion that they are too resilient at the moment and that's the biggest issue with them.
I don't have any problems with flanking them but it takes too much tame to finish them off even with Sturmpioneers. It's not a rarity for a Maxim to escape having 1-2 members left even if I flanked it completely with SP squad. Unless I won't get lucky and kill the gunner there is enough time for a Maxim to puck up and escape. It reminds me situation with MG42 back in the day when they were able to escape having Cons squad on their back.
To summarize, after some playing and thinking about it 4 men squads for Soviet weapon teams seems like a good idea. |
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