If you see your against a brit player, just play to expect an AEC and get a PaK at ASAP and dont skip tech.. its pretty simple. If he over extends his AEC faust and its dead, bye bye wasted fuel and longer wait till cromwell. This is the same as how brits have to rush AT gun to counter 7 min Luchs.
It's not like brits will have much map control anyway, if they rush AEC the most their army will be is 2 IS and an Vickers... don't expect them to do much
AEC can come out at around 6:00 (with equal map control), on large maps, you physically can't have a PAK out on time, and in a decent position. BEST case, it's just rolled onto the map when the AEC starts wrecking everything. Also, you'd be amazed how well 2 squads and a vickers can do on some of the narrow maps (Rails and Metal, Kharkov, even ecliptic if they start south. And that's if both go AEC, usually only 1 of them rushes it, the other goes inf heavy. Remember that the brit infantry cover bonus is a pretty hefty force multiplier.
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You didn't understand what i was saying.
You have to hide your grens around corners and buildings so you can get close enough to faust the AEC.
Didn't say it was going to be ez but that's what you have to do.
No, I understood that - it just doesn't work on many maps. In maps like Ettlebruck, yes, it works great; but on Vaux Farmlands (either fuel), Moscow Outskirts (the fuel cutoffs) and even Ecliptic Fields (if you're in the bottom right), there just isn't anywhere to hide your grens. And even that assumes that the AEC will just be roaming freely. On Trois Ponts, an attack on the right-side fuel with both infantry AND an AEC is basically impossible to stop. The AEC will take out your MG (which won't pin the infantry in cover), while the infantry's cover bonus (so much green cover in that area) will make it impossible for your grens to get in close enough to faust the thing.
*note: this is for 2v2
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Though I haven't had time to play this new patch since being away from my computer I would say do what Ost does best against every fast light vehicle build....
Hit it with a faust retreat the grens and then it take 1 min to 1.5 mins for the allies to repair it..
Which gives you time for a strong counter.
Hide your Grens. Think about where you think its going and you're good to go.
Unfortunately, that doesn't really work, especially against good players. The AEC easily out-ranges the faust, and does a ton of damage against infantry - usually taking a model per shot. As a result, a well micro'd AEC is basically impossible to hit, unless they mess up badly.
As for hiding my grens, it's kind of hard when I need to defend a critical point. An AEC can basically run up to some important point (i.e. cutoffs), take out whatever was defending it, clearing the way for the brit inf to close in. Since that infantry is amazing when fighting from cover, it then becomes exceedingly challenging to take the point back - the whole time your falling behind on fuel and/or muni, allowing their advantage to grow. By the time you finally get a PAK or something out (usually around 7-8min mark, especially on larger maps due to travel distance), they've gained a fair fuel/muni advantage against you, not to mention the unit loss from trying to get the point back.
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welcome to brits vs luchs, l2adapt
See, that's the thing. I've basically explicitly asked HOW to adapt, and all anyone ever says is "L2P". It's not an answer. I've given you (and well everyone) the opportunity to explain HOW I'm supposed to counter this thing, which would then allow me to change my opinion from "it's OP" to "it's fine". But instead, all I get is "L2P", which basically conveys the idea that there is no real counter.
Also, bringing up OKW's luch is a straw man when I specifically mentioned Ost.... |
So for the people saying "it's fine", can someone explain to me how "it's fine" vs. OST?
With equal fuel incomes it seems to show up around the ~6min mark, meaning you'll barely have T2 up, let alone have a PAK in position. You can't hit it with a faust (kites inf), so it drives around like crazy taking out models everywhere. The only temporary solution I can think of is insanely lucky AT mines, but you'll only be able to afford 1 or 2 (at best), since you need MG42s on your grens to hold off the brit inf, and of course, it requires the AEC actually hitting it.
Honestly, I'd be fine with it if it hit the field at around 8-min. The unit itself is fine; it just shows up way before any counter. |
So i've been logging my games; essentially writing down why I win/lose. About 80% of my losses are due to brits building a bunch of emplacements. I've dropped from ~200 on the ladder to around 750 because of this.
Seriously:
17 games, 5 wins
8 of those games involved indestructible RE mortar pits and bofors, 1 crash, 2 teammates leaving. That leaves 2 cases of legitimately being outplayed.
Yeah :/ Spearhead is much better overall if you can grab it. The point with the MortarHT is that it solves the problem almost without effort.
There is few hardcounter that hardcounter that hard in this game.
Don't want to support P2W if a doctrine is literally required to counter a standard unit.
I agree as sutiations described are often kinda "perfect" and some on the other hand require a more careful approach.
There is only particular answer to thoses situations and most of them require you to build a medium tank to be safe or use offmap strikes or abusive amount of mortars.
Problem is, a campy brit is going to have AT before I have a medium tank, rendering it useless.
Dont underestimate the humble ostwind The P4 is beefy enough to eat some AT shots and still pack some AI, enough to worry frontline infantery. It is less destructive than an ostwind but doesn't leave you open on a stuart.
Kozo.
Wasn't aware of this, nice.
/edit
And now I'm around ~970 rank, getting horrible teammates. Switching to 1v1. Still would appreciate tips on how to beat this stuff. Mostly just the Brit emplacements. |
Thanks for the reply.
Hello.
There is something like 515.494 thread that shows a thousand way to deal with UKF emplacements. I suggest you to watch 2-3 pages further of this forum. Having the right tool is not enough, you have to use them well, like an ATgun with a spotter. Of course he can outshoot you with an ability, just step back. Or simply go where emplacements are not.
Yes, I've read many of them. The problem is, they assume a perfect situation, or just don't work. Many say "get an MHT", but this locks me into the "festung support" doc, which is not very good (only one I have with an MHT). An AT gun and spotter works on some maps, but the maps where I actually have problems on (no problem on open maps) are the ones where the mortar pit is built behind a shot-blocker of some sort. As a result, I'm basically limited to either the normal mortar, or late-game tech.
Also, "go where emplacements are not" doesn't really work on maps like Khrakov, or even R&M (right-side house, when playing north).
Yes they are frightening, they are VET3 after all, they deserved to be strong. Still they are less frightening than spaced out riflemens. If they blob there are many more ways to deal with them : grenades, aoe, explosions in general, snipers. I hope that by the time they get vet3 rifles you can field at least one tank, P4 or ostwind. Dont let them get close to not eat the AT grenade.
Rifle nades are very, very easy to dodge, and Pgren nades are horribly ineffective - these aren't that great counters. Yes, I can get lucky with a rifle nade, but it's just not consistent enough. Snipers work, but that only really works vs. dual USF, since brits and sov both have snipers. As a result, I find myself either losing a sniper to counter-sniping, or just sitting around trying to get the counter-snipe.
As for tanks, yes, I often can field one by the time the rifles really become a problem. However, the Ostwind just isn't very good; especially when compared to something like the centaur, or even a Quad HT. I admit, though, I never thought of using a P4. I was unaware this was an effective counter
The most important is to deal with them on by one. It is often important to save your early munition as an OST player in order to launch several Faust at the first T70 that comes too close.
Your 222 has a gun solid enough to help against t70. If it eated a faust it is even more easy but be careful as the t70 is well equiped to cut your 222 in pieces.
PPSHs seems frightening but the main goal is to stay frosty and shoot them at range without moving an inch. The ennemy has to get close to you and you are likely to have at least one or two LMG. The conscripts has to be in the open in order to reach an effective range and if you focuse them one by one you are likely to kill them. They are cons after all.
Kozo.
This is the problem. I guess my muni balance wasn't great. I'll work on that. |
This week has been insanely bad for me. Up until Tuesday, I usually maintained a 5-7 winstreak, and was consistently in the top 200 (and at one point 150) for Ost. I don't know what's happened, but the meta has changed dramatically. And yes, this is for 2v2 random teams.
Problems
Brit Emplacements
I can't believe these made it back from CoH1, but regardless, these things ruin my game, and often show up early (5-6 min). Often, mortar pits are place directly behind buildings, stopping direct fire (AT). For example, on 'Trois-Ponts', I often face one placed either behind the bottom-left buildings (by the muni point). Ettlebruck station I often see one behind the right-most VP, near the neutral point. Even worse are the Bofors, which shred infantry. Their barrage makes using AT guns not the best choice, and they can counter mortars. The worst case I've seen is a bofors in the center of rails and metal, supported by a mortar and a rifle-spamming (5+ squads in a blob) USF player. How do I counter these? Regular mortars aren't good enough (brace, also squishy). Direct fire is out (can't use AT guns), and its far too early for tanks. Also, the only MHT doctrine I have is the (awful) 'Festung Support' doc.
Rifle Blobs
These things are insane, especially at Vet 3. They can run past MGs directly (tried as USF, its not hard). They're amazing at every range, and incredibly tanky. How do I deal with these? Grens w/ LMGs kind of work, but it's a 4v6, with cover often pushing it in favor of the rifles, especially with those US-LMGs.
PPSH + T70 rush
I've only seen this a few times, so it's not a huge issue, but I still have trouble countering it on the rare chance it happens. Early game (first few min) is fine, but once PPSH's come out, grens become harder to use, since you need to keep range. Pgrens work, but the cost just isn't effective (reinforce wise). Then, but around 7-8min a T70 (usually this is dual Sov) comes from each player. This then quickly escalates to 3-4 T70s total, roaming around and wrecking everything.
In general, these problems occur even when I'm winning, or at least on equal footing. My team will have 50%+ of the map, usually including one fuel (sometimes both), and we still end up getting destroyed by these types of things.
Also, I'll post some replays when I can. |
The other three factions are relatively similar; base building, army composition, etc. OKW is the "odd one" (similar to CoH1's Brits) in that it has mobile base buildings, relies heavily on 2 units (Volks + Obers) and has unique gameplay mechanics (fuel to Muni, muni to fuel, vet 5, etc.).
Balancing something that 'different' is tricky, and even if its balanced, a lot of people find that it's just too different to be fair (or is fundamentally flawed, etc.). As a result, you have a lot of debate over it.
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It's a good unit, but it's incredibly impractical. It comes out of the T1 building (so you could get a cannon-HT or PJIV), and it costs a fair bit of fuel/mp.
Realistically, you just aren't going to buy it early game; it's too much of an investment. Even if you had 100% map vision, the resource hit alone would probably set you back - and the thing doesn't have 100% map vision. It has a small FoV that it scans across a larger FoV. Oh, and it takes time to setup.
The only time I've ever used it in 1v1 is when the game has been going on for a LONG time (40+ minutes) and has become a stalemate (both times this has happened was on that map with the river/stream across the middle, and a bunch of trees. forgot the name). At that point, you have enough units to defend in a static manner; which is where the thing shines.
You can use it to spot for your Stuka, meaning that you can strike your enemies WHILE they are massing - this is absolutely amazing; but it means having a Stuka (100 fuel) and an IRHT (35f?) + a considerable amount of MP. It's often more effective to get a panther if you want to push. If you're not using it to spot for Arty, it's pointless.
You're not going to use it to stop flanks - if you built one, you're obviously at a stale-mate, and you've already made a defensive line which won't get flanked easily; or you can play well enough to move your forces around in a quick manner.
Basically, it's not OP. It's decent, and insanely situational. When it's used RIGHT it's incredible, but using it right is so rare in 1v1 that it's basically a 'joke' unit. |