Does a strat video. Floats 4000 MP. ggwp no re
Actually, very well produced an articulated, I think I might start learning grid-keys now, or at least for CoH2 if that works. |
This is why I would never work in the customer service department. I face-palmed so hard I have a scar now. :/ |
SC2 is definitely more micro focused than Coh, however I definitely wouldn't claim that it has more depth. Moreover, whether SC2 has more macro is debatable, seeing as sc2 completely lacks many of the tactical and environmental elements Coh incorporates.
On the whole, though, this conversation is rather pointless. If coh2 has a big player-base, it'll be a big e-sport. If not, it won't. Also, for anyone arguing that Coh has a very limiting skill ceiling: How come, despite being 6-7 years old, the top seeds always end up in the semis/finals, no matter the tournament?
That's silly, plenty of large games don't become e-sports. I don't understand how that and the concept of a skill ceiling are mutually exclusive. There are like 15 people, maybe, playing CoH at tournament winning level I would say. Predicting which of them is going to win is not a massive surprise, especially given how experienced the tournament people are by now, after 25 of them. |
Gosu was playing brilliantly for a while, I'd put him on the "under-appreciated" list for sure.
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I'm not even going to comment on the inaccuracy of your point about SS. Oh wait that's what I'm doing right now, never mind.
That said, I'm jealous, I'm quite excited for ARMAIII. |
That's all true, except I would argue that SC2 rewards playing for 6-8 hours a day quite heavily because it has a lot of depth and is micro/macro focused. I don't think that practicing CoH for 8 hours a day is going to translate to massively outplaying people that perhaps do a quarter of that. There's simply not enough in CoH to justify that amount of time investment. Hence, as I've been saying, a skill ceiling. |
If the platinum guy is given time to prepare it could be a close series. If he believes he can body that guy he can do well, if he's given up just because his opponent is in masters league then he's already lost before he's hit the start game button. The platinum player might be better at dealing with a high pressure situation in a bo3 format. League positions are a terrible way of determining a player's ability.
I've seen it time and time before where talented, lazy players get bopped by players who work hard to get better when the time arises.
Seriously a high ranking on a ladder doesn't give you a licence to automatically body people.
The distance between the absolute worst CoH player (in 1v1 auto) and the absolute best is, compared to the distance between SC players, not particularly large. |
I don't think I fully understand everything which the term 'skill ceiling' encompasses. If it's micro management skills well I do agree there is a point where you do hit the 'ceiling'. In my experience for Company of Heroes it does not take long to reach a point where you hold the skills required to play well. Tasks such as performing grenade dodges, solid flanks, correct unit positioning, good arty placement, use of cover and reversing vechiles approriately are performed by all, whether it be a low or high level of play. You can acquire these skills relatively easily, however consistantly performing with these skills throughout a game, especially in an intense high level game is where the difference lies.
Skill in Company of Heroes is not hard to acquire, consistancy is.
If skill also encompasses decision making well there is no ceiling cap. You are always learning. I feel I am maybe in the top 300 players for CoH and have pretty much hit the ceiling in terms of micro. In terms of decision making though there is always room for improvement. After every game I play, win or loss, I generally reflect on the decisions I made in the game and see what is good or bad. Decision making can never have a skill ceiling I feel.
Deciding which engagements are good and tech choices always have a best choice, luck and randomness can sometimes overthrow this, although not by much. Company of Heroes though has so many soft counters I feel it is easier to compensate for a error in comparison to other RTS games which can be much more punishing due to harder counter systems.
I'm not talking about individuals hitting "perfection" or anything like that. Everyone at the top is at a similar level. There is no room anymore in CoH for someone to come in an utterly defeat everyone playing currently purely with ridiculous micro or anything like that. Even if everyone is slowly getting a little bit better, and that's not undisputed, that doesn't mean there can't be a practical skill ceiling. |
it's pretty much exactly what i am allowed to say according to the NDA that was not officially revealed yet.
you could ask for opinions on what effects those officially revealed new features/changes might have, but that has been discussed to death in other threads (Tommy did a very good summary on these things in his post).
And yet we've managed to discuss several things of interest. |
I find it odd that when I google "skill ceiling" the only hits that come up are all video game related. It makes me believe it's just a bullshit term used by people on the internet to justify their choices.
It might not require the reflexes needed in a FPS or the build order memorization of other RTS games but it still rewards outplaying your opponent by making better decisions than them and adjusting to situations faster.
A "skill ceiling" is simply the diminishing returns of improving at high level play. It's pretty simple, and I can't really explain it any better. Do people like Aimstrong or 12azor have any insight on this? |