Elite Armored is garbage for a bunch of reasons;
-Emergency repair is bugged and can cause your tank to get decrewed every time it takes damage
-HEAT shells are the wrong type of shell and are easy to avoid
-PIV Ausf J's are just worse PIV's for almost the cost of a KT anyway. (At 210 for two they are 105 each but with the fuel penalty cost as much as an Ost PIV anyway). Also nobody wants 2 PIV's at 9 CP
-Panzer Commander is expensive and doesn't really do much other than look cool and call in extremely slow artillery barrages.
I agree that Elite armor is garbage, but OKW does have a medium, the Panther, it's just that it is a really expensive medium given the fuel penalty. It doesn't matter much in a 3 or 4 but in a 1v1 it means that it comes really late, and you always have to chose between JP4 (or Puma if you went mechanized) or being vulnerable for a long time if you're waiting to build Schwerer and Panther. |
Okay; so here is a couple of things that could be changed:
- Pin strafe becoming a AI + suppression strafe meaning it can damage and suppress infantry (for 80 munitions) instead of just pinning them. This would make it similar to the IL-2 AI strafe
- Conversion becoming PASSIVE, this means like Soviet Industry at 3 CP you are locked into getting less fuel for more munitions so you can't just back out and still make tanks. Nope you are now limited on fuel and you BETTER make good use of those strafes
- AT strafe doing less damage but over a wider area: So while it won't 1 shot multiple mediums it will damage a horde of tanks the opponent is refusing to move because he doesn't want to micro his shit
- Stuka bomb strike isn't an issue (it's on a LOT of commanders), personally I think howitzers should be able to move but that's just me.
Really the most problematic thing is the conversion, after/if that's fixed the rest could follow as tweaks.
I agree that it should be passive, but think it should work like the OKW fuel/muni exchange (1 lost fp gets 2 muni's at most, maybe less). If it was just a percentage of the total, some of us would build nothing but ammo caches and get a big increase in ammo for only a small decrease in fuel and it would probably still be OP.
The stuka dive bomb needs to not work on on-map arty. Even just removing the recon would just mean that another player would have to have recon. |
Am I the only one that doesn't play CAS, not because it's cheesy, but because it's so unbearably boring?
Anyway, this thing is much like the old B4, destroying all of your units with very low risk to your opponent (just muni drain) and with little counter play. At least you can Stuka the B4, but CAS AT strafe is nearly impossible to shoot down on the first pass.
That being said, I find it hilarious that the same people who defended the old B4 are now complaining about CAS.
The old B4 at least had some trade-offs, because it doesn't have any good armor and if someone built a B4 within walking stuka range of the front line, it would get decrewed constantly and not able to get to Vet 1, which limited its usefulness. CAS still has access to Panthers. It also didn't hard-counter a lot of doctrines like CAS (which ensures that allies can't have on-map arty). It was over-nerfed to the point that nobody would use it anyway, even if Relic hadn't gone full retard and gave everyone CAS.
How about instead of nerfing CAS, we make a USF doctrine that has the same fuel to muni conversion, buffs the P47 to the same damage as the AT strafe, includes IR pathfinders, recon, and a suppression strafe. A mirrored commander would have to be fair, right?
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 Ironically CAS is better in 2's I find because the maps are a lot smaller so the strafes hit the field essentially instantly.
But yeah it's been discussed a billion times; change the conversion to a passive instead an active.
The fuel to munition is gives way too much fuel, especially on a larger map. Also, being near the edge of a large map is worse than being on a small map.
On maps like Lienne, with the fuel to ammo conversion you can hit almost 200 ammo per minute, enough to keep all of your strafes on cooldown.
Assuming the image loads, you'll see seven squads that had been suppressed by one strafe. One of the squads was outside the boundaries of the red smoke but it suppressed anyway.
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I genuinely had no idea about that until this thread. All I knew was that you were friends with Brad. I've since talked to others about it, and had the full story.
If I caused offence, I apologise. It wasn't my intention.
REQUEST TO MODS: I'd like this topic to continue about the subject it's intended for, from this point on. If it degenerates again, please close.
It's difficult to have a good discussion on this when we don't have a good data set. Anecdotally, it feels like the balance is somewhat okay in 1's and 2's but not good in 3's and 4's, which is similar to what the random results show. That said, the 3v3 and 4v4 random results would never be a good metric to use to balance the game, unless radical design changes were made (like eliminating all heavies). Realistically, Relic isn't going to make any radical design changes because the return on investment isn't likely to be acceptable. Most of the players play the computer or campaigns, and as long as those are fun to them, they will continue to buy DLC and expansions.
In the group of three that I normally play with, we had a seven game losing streak as allies and a 12 game winning streak as axis at the same time with the current patch. Now, maybe we suddenly forgot how to play allies and only know how to play when playing axis, or maybe the balance in larger games shifted.
In any case, Relic didn't do us any favors by implementing just part of a balance patch. Eventually, we will figure something out that is somewhat competitive as allies in 3's and 4's only to have to go through the same process again when the rest of the changes hit. In the meantime, I'll likely play 1's and 2's as either faction and 3's and 4's as primarily axis, so I can feel good about myself and get the participation medal. Playing as axis is a lot more fun in larger games anyway, given that there is a lot more variety of ways to play as axis in larger games.
On a positive note, 1v1's as OKW seem better now.
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Because bringing up an 8 month old scandal was the shining beacon of maturity huh?
I don't know anything about whatever scandal you are referring to and was not jumping on any bandwagon. I posted what I did because you'd gone off the deep end with generalizations about people that disagree with you, and then posted the very Bear-specific diatribe.
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So what you're saying, is that because people literally can't get good, we should make the game easier?
Are you really trying to the do whole "everyone gets a medal" mentality bullshit that is making schoolchildren into entitled, lazy slackoffs?
Jesus, get a grip..
Oh boy here we go.
I'm going to be very, very frank since you feel the need to bring up the Brad crap again.
All you Angry Bears are the ones that got extremely butthurt over the whole thing, solely because Aerohank, someone who is reknowned for being an extremely poor sport and BMer in 1v1s, got his ass handed to him and felt the need to moan on the forums about it. Not only was it extremely hypocritical, but the reaction the rest of his clanmates had over it by jumping on the train was childish. TAB complains about the transparency of Relic, so what better way to get the only balance dev that interacted with the community banned?
Its not like Brad, Jason, and Matt are the only devs at Relic that can actually play this game at a high level. Fantastic, you just eliminated 1 of them. And you all continue to post the same garbage on the forums, even though all of you are just mediocre 4v4 allied only players that vocally complain about the most asinine things.
Thats what "you lot" are all about.
....
Oh, the irony......
You're trying to act all grown up by being "very, very frank" in the middle of a really long immature rant, bordering on a temper tantrum. On behalf of the Bears that I play with, who don't know you or anyone at Relic and vice versa, I would like to wish you good luck with that grown up thing.
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#ADAPT
As part of this adaptation, why don't you play nothing but 4v4 allies for the next month, then post your win rate? |
Give Katyusha 12-15 armor making it semi-proof to small arms fire, should still die in 1 hit to an AT gun because it's a bloody truck. It also effective out at farther ranges than the Pwerfer.
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Great, so when are you going to apply that logic to the Kubelwagen, which is a bloody Volkswagen, and certainly less sturdy than a bloody truck. |
Well I will say CoH2 is the most poorly balanced game RN, its all due to how long it takes for their patches to kick in and their unwillingness to listen to the community but make good judgments on it. Their patches over buff something or over nerf units pushing them hard into the meta or completely wiping out the doctrines you can go (B4,kv1 commander for a start).
You can argue with me all you want but this is going to be my final view on this game. The bias is reaching critical levels, we don't get a lot of information about the game and how units that are adjust are supposed to fit their roles. Its almost impossible to talk strategies or if units are broken without someone calling you a "Wehraboo" or an "allies fanboy" leaving all discussions null and boring.
There is no counter play if you take out call ins for soviets, USF gets beat down by mg spam, and the only way for USF to win is to spam Jacksons to stop panther spam. There isn't a fair game, and its getting duller by the minute as axis and allies go the same commanders and don't have options to explore other ones to get a different game. Adding the Brits wont help the bitterness in the community and its unwillingness to discus balance issues and be open to changes. The past 2 weeks I have made posts constructive topics and issues and half the posts are filled with "its a l2p issue" without even giving the idea a try, they skip the wall of text and look for a TLDR without giving it a thought.
If we want this game to be here after the British launch, we as a community need to get better at communicating and telling people our reasoning behind it. Rn it takes 3 pages of talk to convince Alex that something needs changed. Balance patches are another issues, they should be smaller but more often to keep the META in check and make it so we cant spam broken units and make even more people put the game down, last but not least we need to understand both factions and how they operate. Play a few games as the other faction and think about it from a balance stand point rather than looking at the RAW W/L ratio as those wont till you that much.
This game as it stands is almost impossible to balance without overhauls, not even ESL would allow this to fly and in order to fix this we need more open minds not "l2p" or "Working as intended". Remember this is our game and our passion, we shape this game and its competitive back bone.
The problem isn't us, it is Relic. They made the decisions. They will continue to make bad ones.
My only choice is whether or not to continue supporting them by buying DLC or expansions, which I will probably stop. |
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