One of the problems the 85 faces is that its forte, 60 range, has been made much less important over the course of this year. It used to be matched (and outranged) only and exclusively by the Elefant (not counting PaKs of course), and could have at least sniped stuff from afar.
Now Panthers are seen every game (except Wehr 1v1's), and they have 50 range, which gives much less margin of error than the usual 40. JagdpzIV have 60 (and huge ambush bonuses). I won't mention the Jagdtiger in light of recent changes, but it was a huge part of the meta.
And there are long-range allied units that are part of the meta (like Jackson, b4, ISU) so the Su85's one strong point is all but unneeded.
Looking forward to the new meta with nerfed ISU and JT.
I agree completely. I always felt that the SU85 was a stopgap counter until you could get out an IS2 or ISU152. With the buffs to the Panther (better gun, and armor, etc). the SU85 is quite lacking. Like DrChengele said, Panthers are pretty much in every game 2v2 and higher. |
For better or worse numbers still count for allies. There is no one trick but several units working together are quite viable to counter the KT and JT. I see the JT being strong against an army of few heavy tanks. Whilst its counter would be several mediums.
Yes in theory Allies have the numbers advantage. It is possible yes but check out this comment by Relic
"Allies are more difficult to play as a result of their high unit count and low power ratio per unit. For example, instead of heaving one super heavy Tiger, the USF have two or three Sherman Tanks. In theory, the USF player possesses a relatively similar army value; in practice the execution of this army requires greater coordination. Short term, our goal is to target a few problematic units or upgrades to better align the factional balance. Long term, we will be addressing faction scaling, how the power of a faction compounds into the late game, and difficulty of play related to Allied army composition.
That said, other factors will likely be added to that list as we further investigate some of the challenges players are facing."
Although USF and SOviets have that numerical advantage, playing well with that amount of medium tanks requires a lot more micro then controlling one Axis heavy. People can say "L2P!!!" all they want, but I don't see it as balanced if it requires more effort to achieve the power advantage/equality as smaller Axis armies |
Price never justifies performance
Edit: Im sure there will be more to it later.
lol you would be surprised. SO many people on here are like "OMG MY UNIT IS MORE EXPENSIVE IT HAS TO BE BETTER!!!!" |
IS-2 is surprisingly good against the KT, and expect to see less JT to counter it. Any commander with shocks has always been good, and my roster usually consists of Lend Lease, Counterattack tactics, and the IS-2 shocks and incendiary strikes. Call ins as usual, but the ISU always felt like cheating when i build T2, spend no fuel until the CP comes, and then call in ISU after ISU which counters near all.
That is kinda what I was talking about. Soviets already lack good, competitive commanders, now the manual target thing is going to turn people off more. Now im guessing more people will move to IS2 doctrines = forcing players into a specific doctrine
don't get me wrong, I am happy Relic is doing something about these units. I just don't think a general blanket change on them will do the trick. I think both units will need their own specific rebalance |
Have any of the people claiming ISU-152 and Jagdtiger were over-nerfed actually tried using them yet? Seems like hyperbole to me.
Queenratchet |
Because Mark Target + IL-2 is totally useless. It is a problem if ISU MADE commanders... And it is better if it remains dormant for the while.
Anyways, IS-2's.
WEll I think ISU is the main incentive for players to go towards Mechanized. It is one of the few doctrines with mark target. Although I think bombing strike will be a lot more effective now?
I think the IS-2 is fairly weak against armor, especially those KTs and JTs. Hopefully the nontracking thing isn't a bug. I am worried this will pigeon players into even lesser commanders (those with shocks and IS2).
I am going to hop on the beta this evening and test it out. I will still be building the ISU of course, and I am actually not that worried, but I don't know if other players share the same optimism |
Yeah this is very good. A lot more commanders will be used.
bye bye guards, you were already non-existent in games, now your commander will be useless too
Sovs have enough AT as is even without the ISU-152. That was not the case pre-april patch but now they do.
I disagree. The matchup was okay versus Ost, but what are you going to do when those KTs and JgdTs show up? |
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I am not sure a change in the meta will really help decide the direction of SU85 buffs. The SU85 still faces the same tanks regardless of the call-in meta or not. I would even say call-in meta is primarily a Soviet thing. |
We wanted to do it this time around, and get feedback since it's a significant update. It may happen again in the future, but we will likely still release stuff without open betas and continue to utilize our internal testing team and the Alpha group.
Some things just require more people in the game. It's a case by case call regarding what we think is best 
Sounds good Cynthia, but i really do wish the open beta is allowed for all patches |
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Hi guys its NinjaWJ with another 4v4 replay. This game features good teamwork by the Allied players. Flanking and combined arms does wonders in the early game. However, the Obersoldaten started rolling out and we were in big trouble. WE managed to hang in there with some good Katyusha and mortar support. WE shouted "OOOORAHHHH!!!" and reclaimed territory for our Motherland. We then drove the Germans back into their bases.
Enjoy the game |
Relic Entertainment
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