Is there concrete evidence of what the damage formula for grenades is? All grenades - rifle, satchel, bundled, etc.
I've been trying to pay particular attention to some recent games and I cannot for the life of me figure out why sometimes a grenade causes instant squad wipe and sometimes it does absolutely nothing. Lots of different squad groupings, squad health, retreat and not retreat, and I can't tell a thing.
Thanks.
Grenades
14 Sep 2013, 12:52 PM
#1
Posts: 194
15 Sep 2013, 05:24 AM
#2
Posts: 394
Is there concrete evidence of what the damage formula for grenades is? All grenades - rifle, satchel, bundled, etc.
I've been trying to pay particular attention to some recent games and I cannot for the life of me figure out why sometimes a grenade causes instant squad wipe and sometimes it does absolutely nothing. Lots of different squad groupings, squad health, retreat and not retreat, and I can't tell a thing.
Thanks.
The only thing I have noticed is that Grenades do a ton more damage against units in green cover. Other then that I can't pick it either, maybe it's just RNG.
Porygon Wrote:
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
15 Sep 2013, 07:02 AM
#3
Posts: 94
I've been wondering this myself. It seems to me that there is an AOE component, they seem to work better against squads that bunch up, so if the grenade strikes close to more models they will take more damage.
But i would love to know the rules of thumb as to when they'll do the most damage.
But i would love to know the rules of thumb as to when they'll do the most damage.
15 Sep 2013, 07:51 AM
#4
Posts: 394
I've been wondering this myself. It seems to me that there is an AOE component, they seem to work better against squads that bunch up, so if the grenade strikes close to more models they will take more damage.
But i would love to know the rules of thumb as to when they'll do the most damage.
I have found because of the way squads react when you try and give them a command (combination of command input delay and all the squad members bunching up when you issue them a command) you are better off just not moving at all if you are not in green cover. Just stay put and and your guys will stay spread out and just take the grande in the face. When ever I have done that the squad takes fuck all damage.
When I do try and micro away the squad bunches up and takes massive damage from the nade. Try it, it works for me.
Porygon Wrote:
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
15 Sep 2013, 10:05 AM
#5
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
ill use the rifle nade as an example. the damage and radius numbers is different for other nades but this rule applies to all of them. the overall radius of the nade may be large, but only a small area does the full 80 damage. the AOE has a radius of 4m, but a near radius of only 1m. so entities within 1m of the impact recieve the full 80 damage and die. from 1m to 2m is linear from 80 damage down to 20 (i.e. a unit at 1.5 would take 50 damage), then from 2m to 4m is all 20 damage. so the circle that is shown when shooting a rifle nade is kind of decieving. only guys in the very center will die in 1 hit if the target is at full health.
as for doing more damage to targets in cover, im pretty sure thats not true. i didnt look at all grenades though. light cover takes normal damage and heavy cover actually takes half damage.
as for doing more damage to targets in cover, im pretty sure thats not true. i didnt look at all grenades though. light cover takes normal damage and heavy cover actually takes half damage.
16 Sep 2013, 01:42 AM
#6
Posts: 476
The thing with cover is most likley that they are more grouped up in cover.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
16 Sep 2013, 08:06 AM
#7
Posts: 94
Does anyone know if molotovs have "blast" or if it's all burn DOT damage?
Is there initial AOE damage like in a regular HE grenade from guards/shocks/grenadiers etc.
It seems to me like there is some, at least often you'll lose a guy from right when the bottle hits. But i'd love to hear something from people who actually know.
Is there initial AOE damage like in a regular HE grenade from guards/shocks/grenadiers etc.
It seems to me like there is some, at least often you'll lose a guy from right when the bottle hits. But i'd love to hear something from people who actually know.
16 Sep 2013, 08:11 AM
#8
Posts: 952
Does anyone know if molotovs have "blast" or if it's all burn DOT damage?
It's 10 hitpoints of damage instantly and 7 hp/second from then on. Flames have a 10% chance to crit and instantly kill as well- I'm not sure if it's 10% per second standing in the molotov's flame though.
16 Sep 2013, 08:25 AM
#9
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
youre very close strummingbird. youre right about the 10 damage on hit, but its actually 6 hp per second from the fire. also, flames actually have a 5% chance to instantly kill when the entity has >50% hp. at <50% hp the chance becomes 10%. that applies to flamethrowers as well.
i feel like the chance for a crit has to be hapening more than once per second because flame crits are so common.
i feel like the chance for a crit has to be hapening more than once per second because flame crits are so common.
16 Sep 2013, 08:43 AM
#10
Posts: 94
Thanks Wooof, exactly what I was hoping for.
Is this similar for regular damage or flames only? At least if it works like in COH1 then damaged units (with full model count) would have more chance to lose models to crits - hence the great benefit of healing them up.
Is this similar for regular damage or flames only? At least if it works like in COH1 then damaged units (with full model count) would have more chance to lose models to crits - hence the great benefit of healing them up.
16 Sep 2013, 09:09 AM
#11
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
i made a couple tables about crits. you can find the infantry crits here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc&pli=1#gid=12
and vehicle crits are here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc&pli=1#gid=11
but to answer your question, crits are all based on the type of damage. so these instant kills are only for flamethrowers. explosives can cause a crit similar to the flamethrow though. it cant crit entities with >50% hp, but <50% hp has the same 10% chance to die. small arms and ballistic (tank guns) damage have no crits.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc&pli=1#gid=12
and vehicle crits are here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc&pli=1#gid=11
but to answer your question, crits are all based on the type of damage. so these instant kills are only for flamethrowers. explosives can cause a crit similar to the flamethrow though. it cant crit entities with >50% hp, but <50% hp has the same 10% chance to die. small arms and ballistic (tank guns) damage have no crits.
16 Sep 2013, 09:22 AM
#12
Posts: 688
I always had the understanding that nades and flames were supposed to do more damage to units in cover. That's also how it worked in COH1.
Units in houses are also in cover and grenades have larger effect there (though not sure it goes for Molotov).
The logic is that a fragmentation is being concentrated in a (full or partially) closed space. As with all explosions, a closed space will increase pressure and cause ricochetting.
Units in houses are also in cover and grenades have larger effect there (though not sure it goes for Molotov).
The logic is that a fragmentation is being concentrated in a (full or partially) closed space. As with all explosions, a closed space will increase pressure and cause ricochetting.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
16 Sep 2013, 17:26 PM
#13
Posts: 194
I am starting to wonder if there is some very minor sync issue with where models are / where the grenade lands. Or if there is early CoH1 "scatter" on grenades where they're not going where I think they are. I'll see if I can come up with some canned video examples, but I've been observing cases where almost identical scenarios yield very different results.
@Greendevil, I agree, it seems that not retreating until after the explosion is the way to go. The retreat bunch up can be very fatal.
@Greendevil, I agree, it seems that not retreating until after the explosion is the way to go. The retreat bunch up can be very fatal.
16 Sep 2013, 17:40 PM
#14
Posts: 476
^Retreating works pretty good for me, my units tend to get less damage even if they are morebunched up/ more hit from the nade.
Diffrent results could come from diffrent hp on diffrent models, if the almost dead models are in the middel of the impact and the full health ones at the edge, you might lose very little hp.
On the otherhabnd it could happen that a aquad with the same hp has the low hp models at the edge, and the high hp one in the middel. All might die.
Diffrent results could come from diffrent hp on diffrent models, if the almost dead models are in the middel of the impact and the full health ones at the edge, you might lose very little hp.
On the otherhabnd it could happen that a aquad with the same hp has the low hp models at the edge, and the high hp one in the middel. All might die.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
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