CoH2 LADDERS
29 Aug 2013, 11:12 AM
#21
Posts: 627
It's the same concept. The ideal game ladder is a StarCraft II league, not the thing that we have now.
29 Aug 2013, 12:00 PM
#22
1 
Posts: 144
Just to be mentioned the overall xp system sucks. The only thing that you can read from it is that if someones plays a lot or not.
Which becomes irrelevant when in a few months everyone is lvl 100.
All in all i think the real question here is:
"What can i expect from a random player AND my random opponents when i see the loading screen?"
Which becomes irrelevant when in a few months everyone is lvl 100.
All in all i think the real question here is:
"What can i expect from a random player AND my random opponents when i see the loading screen?"
29 Aug 2013, 12:49 PM
#23
Posts: 255
You don't answer on my question again.
Please, read more attentively previous post:
I already said that my rank now is 2500 and what? What information about my skill i was learned?
When system was consist from 20 levels and I had Lt. (#12-level), I knew my real rank. Now we can see only 200 top players, or maybe game was created only for 200 people. What about other 1000000, who bought this game?
I play only automatch. And I was found significant flaws in the interface:
1. I dont see the options to see level of my opponent or partner in game. And dont see statistics played matches. For example, in TW there is this option (statistics in Steam).
2. How I can discuss just played match in the chat in the game, what players in this chat is? I dont see their names in chat.
3. How I can to invite them to friends. Yesterday I have interesting game whith player, named Shark. I wanted to talk to him. But, when I search him in Steam, I see a 85 pages of him namesakes.
In good old CoH was not these problems. So, I encourages the community to support my claim about improving the ranking system.
Ok, thanks for being a bit more clear on what you were actually asking. Firstly, you can add someone on steam by clicking on the circle next to their name in the score screen after the game. You can search their rank on coh2.org by using the method provided there(looking up their steam ID) You can also discuss a match afterwards while looking at the score screen.
While this isn't quite as efficient as one would want, the coders of coh2.org have done tremendous work to give us the possibility to see elo+ ranks. Relic will hopefully implement the steam ladders soon(valve is apparently taking long with this) and it will be more user friendly in future. In the mean time you can still use the method above.
So all in all the system could be better, but lets hope it is going to get a lot better soon. For the moment i am really glad they made putting in great maps like semois and langres in the pool a higher priority. I also have a hunch that it is valve who is to blame for official ladders taking long and not relic themselves..
29 Aug 2013, 12:55 PM
#24
Posts: 333
The setup for a football league is completely different to an rts ladder.
In most leagues you have to play everyone twice over a long period of time.
Rts ladders are just game spamming to climb up the ranks.
Thanks for proving my point of the ladder needing to be well thought out and smartly setup. A ladder that rewards u for spamming games regardless of win or lose is a bad ladder.
Still vastly disagree with ladders not being capable of reflecting skill.
29 Aug 2013, 13:00 PM
#25
Posts: 255
Thanks for proving my point of the ladder needing to be well thought out and smartly setup. A ladder that rewards u for spamming games regardless of win or lose is a bad ladder.
Still vastly disagree with ladders not being capable of reflecting skill.
Remember the in game rank is not a ladder rank, it is simply an xp meter like the 'levels' in dota you get for playing games.
I agree the xp-meter of rank 1 to 100 is kindof dumb, and only shows how much time you spent on the game, but this can be fixed if they dont cap it at 100, so you see the total xp of all time. In addition it can show your steam ladder ranking/league, which it hopefully will in future.
The coh2.org ladder is a proper elo+ (according to skill) ladder.
29 Aug 2013, 13:05 PM
#26
Posts: 333
In my opinion both Relic and players like IpKai heavily underestimate the importance of having an INGAME ladder, and it is one of the bigger reasons of dwindling playernumbers of coh2 at the moment.
A ladder means you always have something to play for. Its addictive. It makes every game interesting in it's own. Even if it's a bad ladder, and it promotes spamming games it still gets people hooked.
Having only tournaments without a good ladder is stupid. The casual player will miss out on any form of competition cause he doesn't enter tournaments since he has more important things to do in the weekend -> he ends up leaving.
A ladder means you always have something to play for. Its addictive. It makes every game interesting in it's own. Even if it's a bad ladder, and it promotes spamming games it still gets people hooked.
Having only tournaments without a good ladder is stupid. The casual player will miss out on any form of competition cause he doesn't enter tournaments since he has more important things to do in the weekend -> he ends up leaving.
29 Aug 2013, 13:17 PM
#27
Posts: 21
so please don't waste our time even talking about it
ok, i wont.
29 Aug 2013, 13:36 PM
#28
Posts: 627
In my opinion both Relic and players like IpKai heavily underestimate the importance of having an INGAME ladder, and it is one of the bigger reasons of dwindling playernumbers of coh2 at the moment.
A ladder means you always have something to play for. Its addictive. It makes every game interesting in it's own. Even if it's a bad ladder, and it promotes spamming games it still gets people hooked.
Having only tournaments without a good ladder is stupid. The casual player will miss out on any form of competition cause he doesn't enter tournaments since he has more important things to do in the weekend -> he ends up leaving.
This. People seem to think that once CoH2.org has a ladder it's all fine and dandy, and you get abused like shit if you think otherwise. Not only is the interface unfriendly, the ladder itself is out of the way. People just don't get that hosting a ladder on a 3rd party as your sole ladder is a bad idea, and even worse, some people think developers should outsource everything to this ambiguous entity called "The Community".
The ladder is a good stop-gap for people who know it exists and for people willing to go and look it up every time they want to see themselves and willing to jump through hoops to find other people's stats, but for everyone else? Not so much.
29 Aug 2013, 13:42 PM
#29
Posts: 17
Mauser wrote:
Do you realy know, that Relik make ladders in Stiam, or it only your hope?
If second, then we should say them about it. And all this topic about it statement.
Relic will hopefully implement the steam ladders soon
Do you realy know, that Relik make ladders in Stiam, or it only your hope?
If second, then we should say them about it. And all this topic about it statement.
29 Aug 2013, 14:22 PM
#30
15 
Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
I did not say ladders are bad I said you can't compare a ladder to a league, they are two completely different things and highlighted one of the differences between the two.
Now the question "are ladders a viable measuring stick for skill?" my answer is that they are but there are much better measuring sticks such as tournaments and league results.
I also don't want to go down this road for the millionth time but there are plenty of games that have tournaments and no ladders that do exceedingly well.
Now the question "are ladders a viable measuring stick for skill?" my answer is that they are but there are much better measuring sticks such as tournaments and league results.
I also don't want to go down this road for the millionth time but there are plenty of games that have tournaments and no ladders that do exceedingly well.
29 Aug 2013, 14:30 PM
#31
Posts: 255
Mauser wrote:
Do you realy know, that Relik make ladders in Stiam, or it only your hope?
If second, then we should say them about it. And all this topic about it statement.
Can you even spell?
Yes steam ladders are coming.
29 Aug 2013, 14:30 PM
#32
Posts: 627
I also don't want to go down this road for the millionth time but there are plenty of games that have tournaments and no ladders that do exceedingly well.
Not to force you down this road, but I genuinely want to know about these. It'll decently refute my argument.
29 Aug 2013, 14:59 PM
#33
Posts: 333
I did not say ladders are bad I said you can't compare a ladder to a league, they are two completely different things and highlighted one of the differences between the two.
Sure theyre different. As I said in my earlier post: apples and oranges.
Now the question "are ladders a viable measuring stick for skill?" my answer is that they are but there are much better measuring sticks such as tournaments and league results.
But, if done well, can be equally viable to measure skill. If a tournament is done poorly it doesn't reflect skill either.
I also don't want to go down this road for the millionth time but there are plenty of games that have tournaments and no ladders that do exceedingly well.
Indeed I would also like to know which games do exceedingly well without a ladder. SSF4, for instance, most definitely does use an ingame ranking system.
29 Aug 2013, 15:02 PM
#34
Posts: 3293
the reality is that no stat system is much good at figuring out who si the best overall player. the reality on any given day the best player can go down thats because there are other factors other than stats.
Failure is always an option. 
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and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
29 Aug 2013, 15:21 PM
#35
Posts: 333
the reality is that no stat system is much good at figuring out who si the best overall player. the reality on any given day the best player can go down thats because there are other factors other than stats.
Not really sure what your point is here...
This game shouldve had a ladder, it doesn't, it sucks.
Edit: Relic really doesn't look good when they keep implying it's Valve's fault that the ladder isn't there. Basically they just released this game as a beta..."we'll finish it later". Newsflash: people don't like that.
29 Aug 2013, 15:52 PM
#36
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
Not to force you down this road, but I genuinely want to know about these. It'll decently refute my argument.
Any of the current gen fighting games.
Indeed I would also like to know which games do exceedingly well without a ladder. SSF4, for instance, most definitely does use an ingame ranking system.
No one takes the BP system seriously, no one at all especially since the game isn't fit for competition online. It's all about offline tournaments.
29 Aug 2013, 16:18 PM
#37
Posts: 333
Any of the current gen fighting games.
No one takes the BP system seriously, no one at all especially since the game isn't fit for competition online. It's all about offline tournaments.
Doesn't matter. You said there were many games without a laddersystem to do really well. SSF4 is no example since it does have a ladder.
By the way I know of quite some people that ended up going to EVO cause they played a lot of SSF4 online. If there was no rankingsystem at all I think they would have stopped playing ages ago.
29 Aug 2013, 16:54 PM
#38
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
It's a ladder no body gives a shit about. I could also say third strike and super turbo as tournaments for those two games get bigger turnouts than any coh tournament I've been involved in running.
If you believe that your friends find there is value in the BP system then good for them but I should reiterate that no one in the scene uses it as a measure of a player's ability, no one at all.
I'm glad that your friends managed to go to evo but the biggest stumbling block to travelling there is not your ability but your financial situation. Since the evo organisers do not pay for anyone's tickets and accommodation.
At the end of the day the real reason that there aren't a lot of people playing multiplayer coh2 is because they don't enjoy the game for whatever reasons not because there are no in game ladders.
If you believe that your friends find there is value in the BP system then good for them but I should reiterate that no one in the scene uses it as a measure of a player's ability, no one at all.
I'm glad that your friends managed to go to evo but the biggest stumbling block to travelling there is not your ability but your financial situation. Since the evo organisers do not pay for anyone's tickets and accommodation.
At the end of the day the real reason that there aren't a lot of people playing multiplayer coh2 is because they don't enjoy the game for whatever reasons not because there are no in game ladders.
29 Aug 2013, 17:52 PM
#39
Posts: 333
As I said earlier: the ladder system in SSF kept me playing and the same goes for my friends. People want to feel theyre always playing for something. If it doesn't matter if you win or lose it simply takes the fun out of things.
Anyway I suggest we agree to disagree here cause we keep going in circles: you think ladders are pretty much irrelevant and that only tournaments matter. I disagree with that completely.
Anyway I suggest we agree to disagree here cause we keep going in circles: you think ladders are pretty much irrelevant and that only tournaments matter. I disagree with that completely.
29 Aug 2013, 17:53 PM
#40
1 
Posts: 1006
It's a ladder no body gives a shit about. I could also say third strike and super turbo as tournaments for those two games get bigger turnouts than any coh tournament I've been involved in running.
If you believe that your friends find there is value in the BP system then good for them but I should reiterate that no one in the scene uses it as a measure of a player's ability, no one at all.
I'm glad that your friends managed to go to evo but the biggest stumbling block to travelling there is not your ability but your financial situation. Since the evo organisers do not pay for anyone's tickets and accommodation.
At the end of the day the real reason that there aren't a lot of people playing multiplayer coh2 is because they don't enjoy the game for whatever reasons not because there are no in game ladders.
I personally play more because of the ladders or I should even say, I've continued to play because of the ladders. I know it's noting important, but it's fun. I like to be competitive and it allows me to see if I'm doing better or worse and who are the top players and it keeps me going. That's a major part of the game for me and I'm sure it is for others as well.
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