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russian armor

Sdkfz 222 scout car and upgrade

9 Aug 2013, 15:48 PM
#1
avatar of panzerjager2

Posts: 168

Why in the world is that when you upgrade the scout car to the 20mm auto cannon, its piss poor anti infantry capability gets even worse ????

You would think that an upgrade costing 70 munitions will result in a nice advantage instead it has the unique situation of an upgrade putting you at a massive disadvtange vs infantry.

Its already really weak and apart from clown car hunting it serves zero purpose in the game.

Can anyone from RELIC answer this. A 20mm cannon is expected to SHRED infantry but as it stands it cant even kill a sniper squad.
9 Aug 2013, 15:53 PM
#2
avatar of Knoxxx

Posts: 67

Why in the world is that when you upgrade the scout car to the 20mm auto cannon, its piss poor anti infantry capability gets even worse ????

You would think that an upgrade costing 70 munitions will result in a nice advantage instead it has the unique situation of an upgrade putting you at a massive disadvtange vs infantry.

Its already really weak and apart from clown car hunting it serves zero purpose in the game.

Can anyone from RELIC answer this. A 20mm cannon is expected to SHRED infantry but as it stands it cant even kill a sniper squad.


I dont know what you mean. 20mm rounds bounce off of me all the time....
9 Aug 2013, 15:55 PM
#3
avatar of Qvazar

Posts: 881

The upgrade currently causes the coaxial MG to do 0 damage. Afaik it will be fixed in a patch soon.
9 Aug 2013, 15:56 PM
#4
avatar of panzerjager2

Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Aug 2013, 15:53 PMKnoxxx


I dont know what you mean. 20mm rounds bounce off of me all the time....


Without the upgrade the single MG on the scout car is AVERAGE against infantry but the moment you "upgrade" to the 20mm, the MG disappears (although its visible just as a placeholder) and the 20mm is next to useless against anything else other than the clown car.

Do a test ... put one behind a zis3 or a maxim and see how long it takes to decrew one. My personal best was 3 minutes of continous firing.
9 Aug 2013, 16:17 PM
#5
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307

I play soviet and I have to agree this needs to be looked at.
9 Aug 2013, 16:19 PM
#6
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

Soviet has T70 which is better than PE AC

I don't know why should Ostheer AC =/= PE AC
9 Aug 2013, 16:56 PM
#7
avatar of Blovski

Posts: 480

The Ostheer Scout Car's basic AI is actually pretty OK now. A pair of them can actually mangle conscript squads. I agree the upgun is problematic, if only because the big investment makes it no longer a serious threat to snipers or flamer engineers.

@Porygon... the PE AC was painful to play against. Would kill an engineer squad before you got a notification they were being attacked sometimes. Not to mention, T-70 is tier 3.
9 Aug 2013, 17:09 PM
#8
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

The Ostheer Scout Car's basic AI is actually pretty OK now. A pair of them can actually mangle conscript squads. I agree the upgun is problematic, if only because the big investment makes it no longer a serious threat to snipers or flamer engineers.

@Porygon... the PE AC was painful to play against. Would kill an engineer squad before you got a notification they were being attacked sometimes. Not to mention, T-70 is tier 3.


saying T-70 is tier 3 is as bullshit as saying PE AC is tier 3, and PE AC isn't hard to deal with, maybe noobs can't

I don't see a problem if Ostheer AC work like PE AC, it is a glass cannon anyway, one single 30 mine then boom
9 Aug 2013, 17:35 PM
#9
avatar of Blovski

Posts: 480



saying T-70 is tier 3 is as bullshit as saying PE AC is tier 3, and PE AC isn't hard to deal with, maybe noobs can't

I don't see a problem if Ostheer AC work like PE AC, it is a glass cannon anyway, one single 30 mine then boom


Eh, it's not too hard to deal with. It just didn't make for interesting play on account of the lethality closeup being insane. The point of the T-70 is T-3 comment (besides which, PE T3 tended to be quicker than Sov T3 is) is that the Ostheer scout car is T-2.
9 Aug 2013, 17:45 PM
#10
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779



Eh, it's not too hard to deal with. It just didn't make for interesting play on account of the lethality closeup being insane. The point of the T-70 is T-3 comment (besides which, PE T3 tended to be quicker than Sov T3 is) is that the Ostheer scout car is T-2.


double standard, T-70 IS MORE lethal than PE AC
never miss, one shot one kill, neglect cover, can crush

See an AC in COH1? get into buildings or green cover and stall for more than a minute
See T70? RUN THE FUCK BACK or farewell your squad

not even mentioning Guards can A move and fuck up AC better than airborne and rangers
9 Aug 2013, 17:53 PM
#11
avatar of alcoholic
Patrion 15

Posts: 93

I do like them as they are and never had the feeling they were underperforming.

they are a serious threat to infantry without the upgrade considering the exeptional cheap cost of 80 manpower.

with the upgrade they can battle the feared t70, katyushas, and any other sovjet trucks.
on top of that they can damage tanks on rear armor.

the skf 221 /2 is the one vehicle i build every game (mostly 2 or even more).
it is the one vehicle that often leads my statistic in damage ration after a game.
it is the veclicle that i get to vet 3 the most.

i cant see anything beeing wrong with it.
9 Aug 2013, 18:02 PM
#12
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

I do like them as they are and never had the feeling they were underperforming.

they are a serious threat to infantry without the upgrade considering the exeptional cheap cost of 80 manpower.

with the upgrade they can battle the feared t70, katyushas, and any other sovjet trucks.
on top of that they can damage tanks on rear armor.

the skf 221 /2 is the one vehicle i build every game (mostly 2 or even more).
it is the one vehicle that often leads my statistic in damage ration after a game.
it is the veclicle that i get to vet 3 the most.

i cant see anything beeing wrong with it.


good luck using AC fighting T70
9 Aug 2013, 18:10 PM
#13
avatar of Blovski

Posts: 480



double standard, T-70 IS MORE lethal than PE AC
never miss, one shot one kill, neglect cover, can crush

See an AC in COH1? get into buildings or green cover and stall for more than a minute
See T70? RUN THE FUCK BACK or farewell your squad

not even mentioning Guards can A move and fuck up AC better than airborne and rangers


I see you've strategically ignored the tier difference between the T-70 and scout car. Making the scout car have the PE AC lethality would make it more or less like a more fragile Beta FHT, which was just *horrible*.

It's the cost, when it appears and possible counters that make the T-70 not bother me as much. T-70 gets one-shotted by a teller mine and is pretty ineffective against buildings. It might be a bit too strong atm but I'm finding them OK to deal with as an impact unit.

I don't think making the scout car lethality silly PE AC levels would make them more fun to play with or against. I think the main thing is making the DPS vs. infantry not shrivel to nothing after an upgun on one, so that you can at least counter snipers with it.
9 Aug 2013, 18:30 PM
#14
avatar of alcoholic
Patrion 15

Posts: 93



good luck using AC fighting T70


try it - it aint bad at all

the t70 wins vs one skf 222. but ad one faust or vet 2 they are on equal footing.
two skf 222 rape a t70 - thats 160 mp and 140 munitions
compare that to the 360 mp + 120 munition one could sink into schrecked pg

also 1 t70 cant be stopped relieably by one pak. but it cant touch the pak if a 222 guards and blocks for it.
9 Aug 2013, 18:40 PM
#15
avatar of panzerjager2

Posts: 168

I do like them as they are and never had the feeling they were underperforming.

they are a serious threat to infantry without the upgrade considering the exeptional cheap cost of 80 manpower.

with the upgrade they can battle the feared t70, katyushas, and any other sovjet trucks.
on top of that they can damage tanks on rear armor.

the skf 221 /2 is the one vehicle i build every game (mostly 2 or even more).
it is the one vehicle that often leads my statistic in damage ration after a game.
it is the veclicle that i get to vet 3 the most.

i cant see anything beeing wrong with it.


you either are fighting against AI or a soviet fanboy trolling. You have got to be kidding fighting against T70.
9 Aug 2013, 19:22 PM
#16
avatar of Hissy

Posts: 176

I've used Upgunned AC's as part of my strat and they demolish clown cars, vet fast and can take on T70s. Remember you can always repair, and come back for more - You'll repair your AC faster than they repair the T70.
9 Aug 2013, 19:28 PM
#17
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

Stop saying soviets have tiers... they DO NOT HAVE TIERS!!!!!!
9 Aug 2013, 19:33 PM
#18
avatar of Blovski

Posts: 480

Stop saying soviets have tiers... they DO NOT HAVE TIERS!!!!!!


It's a useful shorthand. Soviet T3/4 or whatever you want to call them come out around the time that Ostheer T3 does, is the key point.
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