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russian armor

countering luchs as Soviets

11 Sep 2017, 03:32 AM
#21
avatar of GenMe

Posts: 290



Doesn't matter what game mode it is tbh. It's about unit positioning and mine baiting. You are going to have problems with it if you blob up your penals and a-move them. You will just have to mass retreat 'em all.
However, if you spread them across the map, luchs is going to be able to engage only one squad at the time. At that point it is highly susceptible to be baited. Watch some VonIvan replays, his baiting skills are off the charts.

Also, I didn't say PTRS is hard counter to luchs. It is a deterrent to buy you some time to tech. However if you manage to bait it into mine, you can kill it with PTRS squad.


yes it really does matter what game mode you are playing, in team games both sides are supported so its easier to develop counters to any problem unit, 1v1 is the test base for any problems and their answers in coh 2, its a reaction unit, if the luchs gets attacked by a counter it moves to the other side and harasses, because it comes so early it can garner total map control and inflict a lot of damage, it works much like the T70 but comes out a lot earlier, it can even harass the base until hard counters arrive, PTRS is a double edged sword on penals, there is still a blob of OKW terminators to deal with if you manage to counter the luchs, penals are expensive and will be outnumbered, so downgrading their ability to fight inf for a second rate and almost useless at ability is a last resort.
12 Sep 2017, 01:15 AM
#22
avatar of SturmTigerGaddafi
Benefactor 355

Posts: 730 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2017, 03:32 AMGenMe

yes it really does matter what game mode you are playing, in team games both sides are supported so its easier to develop counters to any problem unit,

Assuming your mate has your flank covered and actually wants to play a 2v2 match as opposed to a 2x1v1 one, you are correct.
However, if that is not the case you are stuck having to counter all units by yourself on an area that is roughly the size of a smaller 1v1 map where pretty much all sets of 1v1 circumstances apply.


1v1 is the test base for any problems and their answers in coh 2, its a reaction unit, if the luchs gets attacked by a counter it moves to the other side and harasses

And that is exactly the point of a deterrent unit. You want to force constant retreats and repairs because those sorts of things just buy you time to inflict as much damage as possible on volks/pios and not bleed your MP, leading you to tech up to hard counters. Furthermore, harassing situations on the opposite flank open up opportunities for ambushing with combined arms: mines, demos, PTRS penals, guards, AT nades, etc.



it works much like the T70 but comes out a lot earlier, it can even harass the base until hard counters arrive, PTRS is a double edged sword on penals, there is still a blob of OKW terminators to deal with if you manage to counter the luchs, penals are expensive and will be outnumbered, so downgrading their ability to fight inf for a second rate and almost useless at ability is a last resort.

This doesn't sound right. If you are referring to luchs rush strat, then there is no way he can have "blob of OKW terminators" (unless you bled hard and they gained vet quickly). The earliest luchs can come at 6 min mark where he can only have 3 questionably healed volks, a sturm pio and a support weapon while soviet army will consist of an engineer, 3 penals, DSHK/Guards or any similar variation like that. If the opponent blobs 3 volks hard, then get a DSHK and PTRS on a single guard squad. Have DSHK support one non PTRS guard squad when dealing with the blob while the rest of the units deal with harassing luchs on the flank.
On the flip side, if the opponent spreads units across the map and uses luchs to support a push on particular flank, call in guards and keep them in the middle so they can support any flank in a reasonably timely manner. In the meantime, inflict as much damage on volks and other infantry through superior positioning. Penals will beat volks in green cover on any range and on longer ranges outside of cover.

I understand this is much easier said than done, but at the end of the day you need to outplay your opponent. Sure, you are going to get raped by luchs from time to time when things go south, especially vs a well rounded opponent, but at least that gives you the ability to analyze luchs usage paterns and react better in the next games.
12 Sep 2017, 14:32 PM
#23
avatar of GenMe

Posts: 290


Assuming your mate has your flank covered and actually wants to play a 2v2 match as opposed to a 2x1v1 one, you are correct.
However, if that is not the case you are stuck having to counter all units by yourself on an area that is roughly the size of a smaller 1v1 map where pretty much all sets of 1v1 circumstances apply.


And that is exactly the point of a deterrent unit. You want to force constant retreats and repairs because those sorts of things just buy you time to inflict as much damage as possible on volks/pios and not bleed your MP, leading you to tech up to hard counters. Furthermore, harassing situations on the opposite flank open up opportunities for ambushing with combined arms: mines, demos, PTRS penals, guards, AT nades, etc.



This doesn't sound right. If you are referring to luchs rush strat, then there is no way he can have "blob of OKW terminators" (unless you bled hard and they gained vet quickly). The earliest luchs can come at 6 min mark where he can only have 3 questionably healed volks, a sturm pio and a support weapon while soviet army will consist of an engineer, 3 penals, DSHK/Guards or any similar variation like that. If the opponent blobs 3 volks hard, then get a DSHK and PTRS on a single guard squad. Have DSHK support one non PTRS guard squad when dealing with the blob while the rest of the units deal with harassing luchs on the flank.
On the flip side, if the opponent spreads units across the map and uses luchs to support a push on particular flank, call in guards and keep them in the middle so they can support any flank in a reasonably timely manner. In the meantime, inflict as much damage on volks and other infantry through superior positioning. Penals will beat volks in green cover on any range and on longer ranges outside of cover.

I understand this is much easier said than done, but at the end of the day you need to outplay your opponent. Sure, you are going to get raped by luchs from time to time when things go south, especially vs a well rounded opponent, but at least that gives you the ability to analyze luchs usage paterns and react better in the next games.



lets put this in perspective, I just watched the two top players in a 1v1, that was americans V OKW, the American player who is number one on the leader board, lost the game to the luchs, in the 10 minutes it was on the field it had 51 kills, he had two shrek squads that couldn't kill it, yes it can hit a mine, yes it can be forced away with a garrisoned guards squad, but the anti inf damage it deals is too much for the point of the game it appears and the cost of the unit plus tech, it wins a hell of a lot of games out there.
13 Sep 2017, 04:41 AM
#24
avatar of SturmTigerGaddafi
Benefactor 355

Posts: 730 | Subs: 3

lets put this in perspective, I just watched the two top players in a 1v1, that was americans V OKW, the American player who is number one on the leader board, lost the game to the luchs, in the 10 minutes it was on the field it had 51 kills, he had two shrek squads that couldn't kill it, yes it can hit a mine, yes it can be forced away with a garrisoned guards squad, but the anti inf damage it deals is too much for the point of the game it appears and the cost of the unit plus tech, it wins a hell of a lot of games out there.

Luchs vs USF is a totally different ball game. Luchs will carve up your low vet rifles much worse than penals. On the flip side, USF has far bigger arsenal of dealing with luchs. If you pick your early engagements well, you should have one or two vet 1 squads of rifles by 6 min mark when theoretically the earliest luchs can arrive. Both Cpt and Lt tier come with reasonably early counters as well. M20 mine will one shot it and you get AT gun; not to mention zooks on Cpt and Stuart.

I don't know what game you were watching but the current state of 1v1 ladder looks like retard racing without top players. Whole bunch of Paula smurfs and a known (and sanctioned) hacker, just to name da few #MVGame. If you want to see how top players deal with luchs, watch some Dave replays. His combined arms play is impeccable.
13 Sep 2017, 05:05 AM
#25
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 997 | Subs: 2

I don't know what game you were watching but the current state of 1v1 ladder looks like retard racing without top players. Whole bunch of Paula smurfs and a known (and sanctioned) hacker, just to name da few #MVGame. If you want to see how top players deal with luchs, watch some Dave replays. His combined arms play is impeccable.

Can confirm. Am top 10 USF. We suck.
16 Sep 2017, 03:00 AM
#26
avatar of GenMe

Posts: 290

lets put this in perspective, I just watched the two top players in a 1v1, that was americans V OKW, the American player who is number one on the leader board, lost the game to the luchs, in the 10 minutes it was on the field it had 51 kills, he had two shrek squads that couldn't kill it, yes it can hit a mine, yes it can be forced away with a garrisoned guards squad, but the anti inf damage it deals is too much for the point of the game it appears and the cost of the unit plus tech, it wins a hell of a lot of games out there.

Luchs vs USF is a totally different ball game. Luchs will carve up your low vet rifles much worse than penals. On the flip side, USF has far bigger arsenal of dealing with luchs. If you pick your early engagements well, you should have one or two vet 1 squads of rifles by 6 min mark when theoretically the earliest luchs can arrive. Both Cpt and Lt tier come with reasonably early counters as well. M20 mine will one shot it and you get AT gun; not to mention zooks on Cpt and Stuart.

I don't know what game you were watching but the current state of 1v1 ladder looks like retard racing without top players. Whole bunch of Paula smurfs and a known (and sanctioned) hacker, just to name da few #MVGame. If you want to see how top players deal with luchs, watch some Dave replays. His combined arms play is impeccable.



well we can simply agree to disagree I suppose.
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