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How to handle the US reconnaissance loiter

8 May 2017, 07:42 AM
#1
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606


I don't know if any of you guys have met this, but I have come to respect this quite powerful non-meta approach of the US player revealing the whole map with p47 loiter and storming aroung my AT-guns and mgs with ease.

The loiter gives an amazing and long time line of sight, that makes the indirect fire of mortars, pack-howie and calliope so strong whilst also revealing all positions. OKW has some great hard counters for this with the flak base, hidden rakettens not getting revealed and radio silence to negate showing up on the map, but the more stationary units of Ostheer seem really vulnerable to this and is ealily flooded and flanked by fast US tanks and powerful infantry who run around their hard counters.

Has anyone else experienced this, and what do you suggest is the best way, units, doctrines to handle this?
8 May 2017, 08:52 AM
#2
avatar of ArnoLaz

Posts: 266

How to counter aircraft abiliry - use antiaircraft. Whats the only real anti aircraft ost has? Ostwind! Is it usefull to build in 1v1? Depends. If u can rush one, u can use it to push enemy out of map, or just get your arse spanked.

But if one does not like ostwind, i owuld suggest to reposition your team weapons accordingly to flank, use main infrantry (grens) for forward scouting, and mine mine mine aroudn flanks : tellers works wonders vs usf tanks : one kills lights, double kills anything else (for 100 muni u can one shot pershing if u position it properly, or use reigels and bust hes arse)

But by 10 cp, u should be able to field at least 1 tank, to counter hes calliope, just dont blob vs it, and u never have any mp problems.
8 May 2017, 09:08 AM
#3
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606

Thanks for response.

My problem usually comes before the Calliope, because I am being bum-rushed by Stuarts and Shermans.

I did consider an Ostwind, but unless I've really had a good opening and manage to rush it then I usually have a bigger need for a stug or p4 to counter light and medium tanks. But I guess it might potentially work.

I think you have a good point about mines though.

What doctrine would you think would work well to counter this strategy?

I'm considering something like osttruppen, because you usually float both munis and manpower with this doctrine, so this could be used for teller mines and fuel supply drops.
8 May 2017, 10:50 AM
#4
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

All factions have this kind of loites (except maybe OKW and UKF, but OKW got flares and UKF got maphack)


I think one 222 or oswind (if you want overkill) should be enough to counter any loiter
8 May 2017, 11:22 AM
#5
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606

All factions have this kind of loites (except maybe OKW and UKF, but OKW got flares and UKF got maphack)


I think one 222 or oswind (if you want overkill) should be enough to counter any loiter


I can see if it could be interpreted this way by calling it a "map hack", but I wasn't trying to imply that I consider the p47 OP, only that I have had problems dealing with it :) Even though it is certainly good, it seems to be quite resonably balanced and priced for what it does.

Are you saying that a single 222 should be able to consistently take down the scout plane? In that case that seems like a counter that can be quite easy to pull off, you I guess I will try this out.

Thanks for the advice :D
8 May 2017, 11:28 AM
#6
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



I can see if it could be interpreted this way by calling it a "map hack", but I wasn't trying to imply that I consider the p47 OP, only that I have had problems dealing with it :) Even though it is certainly good, it seems to be quite resonably balanced and priced for what it does.

Are you saying that a single 222 should be able to consistently take down the scout plane? In that case that seems like a counter that can be quite easy to pull off, you I guess I will try this out.

Thanks for the advice :D


It´s not always consistent, but it should do it´s job for a cheat price. Especially if you vet it early on, it can serve you very well in the lategame, as a recon/AA/ infantry harrasser unit.


But if you have fuel, I recommend you to invest in the oswind. It´s better in every aspect, compared to the 222.
8 May 2017, 11:54 AM
#7
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606



It´s not always consistent, but it should do it´s job for a cheat price. Especially if you vet it early on, it can serve you very well in the lategame, as a recon/AA/ infantry harrasser unit.


But if you have fuel, I recommend you to invest in the oswind. It´s better in every aspect, compared to the 222.


Solid advice! thank you.

Do you have any recommendations or personal preferances in terms of doctrines when fighting USF, particularily the caliope/p47 commander? And should I generally rely on T3 medium Tanks and doctrinals or is it a better option to scale into T4 at some point?
8 May 2017, 12:02 PM
#8
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Solid advice! thank you.

Do you have any recommendations or personal preferances in terms of doctrines when fighting USF, particularily the caliope/p47 commander? And should I generally rely on T3 medium Tanks and doctrinals or is it a better option to scale into T4 at some point?


I really love mobile defense commander against the CalliOP commander.

In the mid game a puma can keep quad and stuart at bay, later on you do not tech for tier3 but get command panzer4 instead (most USF players often play extended light vehicle phase with calliOP commander, so this punishes them greatly).

In the late game, command panzer works great against infantry blobs and pumas can hunt down any calliOPe, thanks to their speed and general weaknesses in USF defences (if they go many calliOPes, they cannot get medium tanks :)).

This build works greatly with tier 4 (puma, command panzer, tier4). USF doesn´t have any counter to panther (in this doctrine), if you support it well with your infantry and brumbaar will wipe enemy squads as well and the calliOP yours.


Also cheap ostruppen replacements does wonders, if you lose many squads to calliOP lategame and all you need is to cap.


Hope this helped you
8 May 2017, 13:19 PM
#9
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606



I really love mobile defense commander against the CalliOP commander.

In the mid game a puma can keep quad and stuart at bay, later on you do not tech for tier3 but get command panzer4 instead (most USF players often play extended light vehicle phase with calliOP commander, so this punishes them greatly).

In the late game, command panzer works great against infantry blobs and pumas can hunt down any calliOPe, thanks to their speed and general weaknesses in USF defences (if they go many calliOPes, they cannot get medium tanks :)).

This build works greatly with tier 4 (puma, command panzer, tier4). USF doesn´t have any counter to panther (in this doctrine), if you support it well with your infantry and brumbaar will wipe enemy squads as well and the calliOP yours.


Also cheap ostruppen replacements does wonders, if you lose many squads to calliOP lategame and all you need is to cap.


Hope this helped you



Thanks man! It is always a pleasure to get solid advice in here :)

juuust one last question :P

Is the puma able to go toe to toe with the stuart and consistently come out on top? Or does the stuart stun shot mean that the puma generally has to rely on its speed and range to win those engagements by flanking and sniping?
8 May 2017, 13:38 PM
#10
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

idk What topic starter is talking about.

P47s do not provide vision more then a year...
8 May 2017, 13:43 PM
#11
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606

idk What topic starter is talking about.

P47s do not provide vision more then a year...


I'm sorry but I don't understand your comment. Could you perhaps clarify what you mean?
8 May 2017, 13:57 PM
#12
avatar of some one

Posts: 935


US player revealing the whole map with p47 loiter


First of all explane this
8 May 2017, 14:16 PM
#15
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



tell him He could use the reconnaissance loiter from Elefant Doctrine and use stuka dive bomb, pzwerfer and pss.. even mortars to storming aroung his AT-guns and mgs with ease.


Elefant, pwerfer and dive bomb in 1v1 ? I don´t know
8 May 2017, 14:32 PM
#16
avatar of some one

Posts: 935



Elefant, pwerfer and dive bomb in 1v1 ? I don´t know


Mortars + Caliope + Pak Howi + fast US tanks in 1v1? I don´t know
8 May 2017, 14:38 PM
#17
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Mortars + Caliope + Pak Howi + fast US tanks in 1v1? I don´t know


I agree, it´s great build for higher gamemodes.



It really depends what gamemode our OP is playing. If it´s 1v1, then mobile def, else jaeger armor
8 May 2017, 15:21 PM
#19
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606

I don't really understand the hostility I'm recieving here. I realize that it is an overstatement to say that they reveal the whole map. My point was simply that they reveal a lot and I was having a hard time countering this when the opponent had this amount of intel about the positioning of my MG and AT-guns.

I specifically clarified that I did not find the p47 to be OP or cheese, but was simply asking for advice as I had not encountered this strategy before and was asking the forum for advice.
8 May 2017, 17:32 PM
#20
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

I don't really understand the hostility I'm recieving here. I realize that it is an overstatement to say that they reveal the whole map. My point was simply that they reveal a lot and I was having a hard time countering this when the opponent had this amount of intel about the positioning of my MG and AT-guns.

I specifically clarified that I did not find the p47 to be OP or cheese, but was simply asking for advice as I had not encountered this strategy before and was asking the forum for advice.


The hostility comes from the fact that first thing that comes to most players minds when reading your topic is the loiter ability airborne commander has. This ability is generally considered underpowered, especially when compared to its ostheer counterpart - the ju87 loiter that can smash american tanks like roaches. That is why some people get frustrated when reading topic that, in their opinion, suggest that the discussion is about how OP the airborne p47 strike is. In many cases, when a player like this opens this thread it is already too late and all he wants to do is vent his frustration.
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