Why some Russians hate COH2 [BadComedian]

You are wrong. Dresden was raided several times by british and american aircraft.

yes, but the americans bombed it on daytimes and relatively accurate, but the RAF did it during the night. this was the warcrime. they couldnt hit highvalue targets, they just tried to hit everything. I'm from Dresden, so i know a little bit about it

You put words into my mouth. I never stated anywhere, that there is no nazi plan for eastern european population, nor that Hitler wanted to just liberate soviet supressed countries. I didnt even mention this guy.
If you didnt recognize by now, but you get a smile by the rest of the community here acting like little children, who dont get enough attention.
I assume you are russian, by judging your arguments? How can you defend a regime and take the word "holocaust" in your mouth, when the world is well aware of Stalins atrocities (holodomor, stalins purges, the enslavment of the eastern countries, ...) BEFORE the war?

Well, I believe in one of your posts I read something like Hitler never wanted to exterminate Slavics from Eastern territories. So, if it was not for enslavement and extermination, than it was for liberating them. That's called logical deduction.

As for "holodomor", Stalin purges - I believe that this here game focuses strictly on the WW2, so these topics are pretty much out of that time scope. And I am really surprised with the fact you are not aware of this. It is quite disturbing. But the fact that you mentioned this was BEFORE the war is kind of optimistic, gives me hope that you are not that illiterate as you seemed to be with your statement, where you openly denied Hitler's plans.

Besides, if you have noticed, there was the post by that Daffi or whatever the name of the Game Director, that the game's main focus was not on Stalin or Hitler, but on "celebration" of the great feat and sacrifice, heroism of the Soviet soldiers.
So, in order not to be banned by one-sided mods on these forums, I will try to keep the conversation at bay, not going off-topic, and I really suggest that you do the same.
Peace

History will judge us, what I would like to say now. All your words are without any facts just words. Shall we wait reaction from Sega and Relic or just continue the words fight?

Same as your words. You can read across the whole thread and you will recognize a strong bias against "westeners", which try to harm russians soul by spreading lies about its past. Also using "nazis" to shut peoples talk down. Watch the video aswell.
Calling someone Nazi is a powerful way to shut poeple down, because you name him a person, which has a world view of there is a superrace and all others need to serve them or die, backed up by the holocaust event. Most of the time there is even no connection to nationalsocialism in the post this guy made in the first place.
Well the words fight was initially started by russians, who were offended by coh2 campaign (sorry i have to use the word "russians" here, but you refer as them yourselfs and speak in your behalf. Otherwise you could accuse me of stereotyping a nation)

If it were not for the Soviet Union, the Nazis would place you in a small bar of soap along with the whole family and the dog, if you have it.

yes, but the americans bombed it on daytimes and relatively accurate, but the RAF did it during the night. this was the warcrime. they couldnt hit highvalue targets, they just tried to hit everything. I'm from Dresden, so i know a little bit about it

From what i know the crime was about bombing the center of Dresden in particular, because the bombing target was there. However military installitions were outside the town (barracks, but i dont even know if they were in use at that time). There wasnt even flak around the city, because at that time this batallion was in russia. No military personal or equipment, just civilians at that time in the city, thats what made it a warcrime. However as you said you know more, because you live there Please correct me if i told something wrong.

@Sharpmax: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.
@carloff: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.
@Break: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.

@Sharpmax: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.
@carloff: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.
@Break: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.

Isn't this spamming? Pretty much the reason I have been banned from Steam CoH2 forums for a month. I haven't copypasted same message though.

This guy badcomedian has really verified his adopted nickname , a very bad example of satyre and an inacurate one at that as well .

I could write abou the wrong points and interpretations he makes like the 1 point about stalingrad being bombed to stoneage which ofcourse is TRUE but i guess its prety straight forward to understand this when every single building in stalingrad looks to be heavily damaged or about how wrong he is when saying that the red army didn sit down and wait which was exactly the case when they communised the balkans and when they sat idly watching the police revolution being bruttaly supressed (ravaging villages as in looting and rape was common practice in the eastern front esp in poland and albeit being supressed to some extent one can easily deduce that the leadership of the RA turned a blind eye to it ). But on the most part i just wont bother since its quite clear to me that most people have made their decision and want bother to change it .

The only point i agree with him is about the campaign showing just the soviets commiting attrocities which is just unfair If you want to portray the violence of the eastern front you should do it for all participants . In the first game relic concentrated on both alies and germans being soldiers not war criminals hence we didnt see anything about bombing the cities of germany or concentration camps .

Finally , i have been saying for some time that this is a game and should not be treated as a history source material in the same way that House MD is not treated as a documentary on medical practice so why is it that everyone is so hell bent on treating it as one . FFS RELIC just put in a disclaimer saying this game is a product of fiction which bases itself on real events but is not truthful in its depiction and its purpose is purely one of entertainment ( although that much should have been made clear by the companys title which specificaly says relic entertainment NOT education ) , saying that the game is as historically accurate as possible and basing your sources on one book is also a no go .

PS

there have been some extremely racist comments in this thread and an other one as well i think a few bans would be well deserved .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_atrocities#World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes#Rapes

To the point though i think the main reason for their protests is the absence of german atrocities and so in a way depicting of soviets as the vilains .

IMO warcrimes are vilainous deeds and no matter who commits them should be punished ( not that there is much hope for that happening any time soon )

From what i know the crime was about bombing the center of Dresden in particular, because the bombing target was there. However military installitions were outside the town (barracks, but i dont even know if they were in use at that time). There wasnt even flak around the city, because at that time this batallion was in russia. No military personal or equipment, just civilians at that time in the city, thats what made it a warcrime. However as you said you know more, because you live there Please correct me if i told something wrong.

well, some rails and industrial buildings were in town, but you could bomb them only at day. the warcrime was bombing at night, because they did not want to hit the rails or anything in the city but the citiy itselve.

To the point though i think the main reason for their protests is the absence of german atrocities and so in a way depicting of soviets as the vilains .

well, everyone should know, that the germans were villains. there are trillion of movies, books, etc about german warcrimes. but you dont read that much about russians criticisng their history.
other than that, good post!

Who gives a fuck what the Russians think? Most of them pirate games and they're generally worthless to humanity as a whole.

Hitler did not recognize you in makeup.

well, everyone should know, that the germans were villains. there are trillion of movies, books, etc about german warcrimes. but you dont read that much about russians criticisng their history.
other than that, good post!

Just a small correction. It's not Germans crimes, but Nazi Germans crimes. That's a big difference.
The same reason I do not use word Russian, but Soviet from the WW2 perspective.
But still, I believe that the main idea to not show the Natzi crimes was not the fact that the whole world is already aware of it. It was just to stress out how ugly the Soviets were, which fought for nothing but Stalin's reichstag photo ambitions. And fought like cowards, shooting off surrendering PoW, inefficiently massacring their own people without any reason, and burning inhabited houses with own people.

you are right, but still, the americans didnt do any major wracrimes in europe. i mean, hiroshiam and nagasaki were BIG warcrimes, but those are pacific.

How does it even matter where they did the war crimes? XD

Cyridius you arent smart. You dont need to insult A Nation And whats with the hate for Russians? And you history knowledge is false.

Oh shit! The years of study I did with numerous primary sources is nothing in the face of your uneducated filth, it appears. I concede, I know absolutely nothing.

Dresden was a british warcrime, not american!
well dachau was american, but it wasnt planned, these were actions by small groups of soldiers without permission.

Other than that, very good post!

Yes and no. There were 729 RAF bombers used and 527 US bombers. Both are pretty much culpable for it.

25 millions killed by Germans you still count to pseudo 60 millions? Top that, I make too many fun for me.

Under Stalin's reign. Stalin was in power from 1928-1952. He took power in 1928 with the deposition of Zinoviev and Kamenev, and the exile of Trotsky. During his 25 year reign(1928-1952) 60 million Soviets died as a result of his policies. At the absolute most generous estimation, 22 million of those 60 were killed by the Germans. Which simply isn't true, but it is possible by an extreme estimation.

What are you talking about? Another version of Goebbels TRUTH?

Yeah. I read Mein Kampf and it just swayed me. I'm an indoctrinated member of the Nazi party. I even went through the initiation ceremony and rubbed my face on a flag covered in blood of my fallen Nazi comrades during the 1923 Munich Putsch.

Lol, what?

The Holodomor. As a result of Stalin's forced collectivism policies, a famine was triggered which lead to 5 million Ukrainians being killed. Estimates go as high as 10 million. Several million also died throughout other countries in the union. This is as a direct result of Stalin's collectivism policies.

Ever heard about White Terror? Or ever heard about CIA and M5? Yep Lenin =) Why not Trotckiy?

What about the CIA? What about the Whites? Nobody is denying what they have done. The only crimes being denied are those committed by the "glorious" Soviet Union.

What was wrong in NKVD methods so you disgrace them like that? Oh, I get it NKVD fights Nazis and then NKVD wins you should think what NKVD is worst.

What was wrong of having a quota of a percentage of the total population that had to be executed within a certain time frame? Oh, now that I think about it, nothing, I guess!

I doubt you don't read full case of Trockist trials? You should read it, and then you just want to return here and edit your post.

You think I'd spend years and not study the exact point in which Stalin seized absolute power? I'm more than read on it. The accused were tortured and forced to sign confessions or their families were executed. Bukharin vehemently denied his charged on the first day, and the first thing he did on the second day of trial was announce his absolute guilt. Kamanev and Zinoviev, and the dozens of others, all the same. Suddenly, all the top members of the Politburo were members of a Trotskyite-Nazi Bloc. Who would've guessed!?

Let's not forget the beloved Genrikh Yagoda, the man who arrested, prosecuted, supervised, and executed all of these men. Just turn out he ended up on trial of the Twenty-One. Not like Yagoda had any secrets that Stalin wanted kept, or anything!

Okey Testing? Are you serious? Any documents about it? Or just "one guy say" argument? 50% of POWs are killed? Documents of execution should exist, right? But nope, they don't exist. Why, couse no execution was made. Surpise? Slave labor? If you are POW and in a camp you should work to help rebuilt ruined country. Do you have some proofs about SLAVE LABOR or it's just another "one guy say" argument?

3 million Germans were still POWs in 1945. When almost all returned in 1948, there was 1.5 million people. Do simple math. They had 85,000 POWs held from 1948 to 1956.

Ad this is excluding the 1.3 million POWs who went missing, and are still missing to this day. Safe to say they died, too.

As by the agreement at the Yalta Conference in 1945, 4 million Germans would be used as forced labor in the USSR. Ethnic Germans living in Poland(Who were kept in camps Jaworzno, Potulice, Łambinowice, and Zgoda), Germanic Czechs, Jews, those living in Eastern Germany, were all also put to work in labor camps and in Soviet uranium mines(For minerals for their atomic bomb research).

Yep, what did nazis expect then they killed all genders and ages of soviets and ruined cities and countries? Did't you know what it was war for extermination or did't you know about Generalplan Ost? Nazis and their europe allies came to destroy 60% of soviet people and then soviets start to make a revenge Nazis run and cry like a whores.

Generalplan Ost was not discovered until well after the war. By their "Europe Allies" you mean those countries that the Soviets conquered who then joined up with Germany to fight back?

In fact you are trying to take soviets victory then making such words. The trouble is you knowing just one side of a TRUTH. Or you just a German. Thats explain everything to me.

If me being German(Which I'm not) is enough to discredit me, then you being a filthy Russian is enough to discredit you.

Frankly, I'm disappointed that the scenario that BuzzCutPsycho proposed did not occur. The Soviets of the 20th century were something to be feared, something to at least respect on a level because they were a powerful nation. Modern day Russia is nothing. It's the shit stain on the underwear of Earth. If your ancestors could see they'd be turning in their grave at what you have become.

I'm not a Russian. Your national pride is meaningless to me. I don't care if my every breath "takes soviets victory". It's not my words that do it, it's the truth I speak.

How does it even matter where they did the war crimes? XD

follow the discussion and you will know, what i was talking about.

well, everyone should know, that the germans were villains. there are trillion of movies, books, etc about german warcrimes. but you dont read that much about russians criticisng their history.

There's enough analysis about the so-called "Purge" of 1937-38, GULAG, penal units etc, backed up by concrete historical documents. The real scope pretty well-defined and cross-checked with other data.

As for Soviet war-crimes - you can't criticize something that didn't really exist. Of course, there were solitary cases of rape and plundering in Germany after it was defeated, but the civilians' complains were accepted, and soldiers guilty of the crime were caught, court-martialed and punished for it (up to execution in front of the unit).

As for Soviet war-crimes - you can't criticize something that didn't really exist

you know nothing, jon snow crazy archer
one of many examples: Katyn massacre
there are far more. FAR. just read this thread.

Well, I believe in one of your posts I read something like Hitler never wanted to exterminate Slavics from Eastern territories. So, if it was not for enslavement and extermination, than it was for liberating them. That's called logical deduction.

As for "holodomor", Stalin purges - I believe that this here game focuses strictly on the WW2, so these topics are pretty much out of that time scope. And I am really surprised with the fact you are not aware of this. It is quite disturbing. But the fact that you mentioned this was BEFORE the war is kind of optimistic, gives me hope that you are not that illiterate as you seemed to be with your statement, where you openly denied Hitler's plans.

Besides, if you have noticed, there was the post by that Daffi or whatever the name of the Game Director, that the game's main focus was not on Stalin or Hitler, but on "celebration" of the great feat and sacrifice, heroism of the Soviet soldiers.
So, in order not to be banned by one-sided mods on these forums, I will try to keep the conversation at bay, not going off-topic, and I really suggest that you do the same.
Peace

I didnt say anything like that, nor i did deny any mass murder plans. You might got irritated by the word "main reason", which was maybe not a good word to use in this emotionally motivated discussion, so its a mistake on my part and im sorry.
However calling me like and pushing me into the nazi corner, because you dont like what you read, is offensive to me aswell you got offended about my post.
England and soviets being allies is no "vision" as someone stated above. Its obvious, once Soviets looses the war, england has no ally anymore in europe and is left on its own. It had defenitly an influence on starting the operation barbarossa.

Once the wehrmacht forces threw soviet forces (i need to call them soviet, because they werent entirely russian army) out of ukraine, the population was overjoyed by the "liberator". Little did they knew that the dicatorship was just replaced.

Ofc nazis had plans with eastern european countries and their inhabitants aswell, once they had won the war, and might have been made true. However germany lost the war and all those documents are visible now. The documents of a possible Stalin victory over europe and the world however are still buried in the kremlin archives, which are not open to public. If it comes to ideological motivated crimes, soviets and nazis were close to each other.

You cannot reduce the discussion about crimes against humanity only to the interwar period, but at the same time talk about nazi crimes. The prewar area showed, how the soviet regime handled their own people and their view about humans. If you talk about nazi ideology and give the holocaust example, you also need to talk about soviet ideology and name their crimes, which was not restriced to WWII.

See, why i only did write a short statment in the post you were offended by? If you want to talk about this time period seriosuly, you need to create a wall of text, nobody will read in the end. Thats how complex this topic is.

I doubt that relic will give a official statment about this and defenitly not a apology.

you know nothing, jon snow crazy archer
one of many examples: Katyn massacre
there are far more. FAR. just read this thread.

There's absolutely no proof of Katyn massacre being commited by the Soviets.
Rather than that, the whole story was started off by Nazis. Moreover, there's a ton of evidence, pointing out that it was performed by Nazis. It's really simple: commit a crime and accuse someone else of it.
Therefore, retelling the tale of "evil Russians executing tens of housands of Poles" is actually retelling Goebells' lies (perhaps without knowing it).

And just like this one, the rest are made up to support the image of "evil Russians" and "bloody Stalin".

There's absolutely no proof of Katyn massacre being commited by the Soviets.
Rather than that, the whole story was started off by Nazis. Moreover, there's a ton of evidence, pointing out that it was performed by Nazis. It's really simple: commit a crime and accuse someone else of it.
Therefore, retelling the tale of "evil Russians executing tens of housands of Poles" is actually retelling Goebells' lies (perhaps without knowing it).

WHAT?

It's really simple: commit a crime and accuse someone else of it.

the sowjets commited the crime and accused the nazigermans.
if you really belive something different, then you are a victim of 1945-2013 russian propaganda. just read wikipedia.