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russian armor

Artillery Field officer

13 Feb 2017, 10:04 AM
#1
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 326

Since the US major and possibly other officers gain shared veterency, I think this obsolete ost unit should have shared vet too. It would add diversity and is possibly within the scope. Thoughts?
13 Feb 2017, 10:12 AM
#2
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 188

It would not help this unit because it is just useless. The vet boni are not helpful either so between vet 0 or vet 3 nothing major happens. A vet 3 officer is still as useless as a vet 0 one. What this unit needs is a complete overhaul, nothing less. I mean artillery officer without artillery?
13 Feb 2017, 10:15 AM
#3
avatar of karskimies

Posts: 67

Skill where is radios coordinates to artillery should cost nothing.
13 Feb 2017, 10:15 AM
#4
avatar of steffenbk1

Posts: 128

It would not help this unit because it is just useless. The vet boni are not helpful either so between vet 0 or vet 3 nothing major happens. A vet 3 officer is still as useless as a vet 0 one. What this unit needs is a complete overhaul, nothing less. I mean artillery officer without artillery?


The artillery officer is not useless if you know how to utilities it.
13 Feb 2017, 10:17 AM
#5
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 326

The combat ablity for 25 munis gets very powerfull with vet.

vet0 = 1.15x acc on inf and 0.87x reload on vehicles (including pak)

vet3 = 1.25x acc on inf and 0.75x reload on vehicles (including pak)
13 Feb 2017, 10:25 AM
#6
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 188



The artillery officer is not useless if you know how to utilities it.


You know how to use it? Tell me, I really tried to use him in 1vs1 and 2vs2 and I didn´t have much success.
Smoke is great if you face multiple maxims or Vickers, but when you would be better off with a mortar
-> better to safe muni and use smoke barrage from mortar. The accuracy buff is not that useful either, grens have usually more than enough accuracy, its survivability they lack -> better to invest in lmgs for more damage. And finally the vet 1 ability is overpriced and situationally. 80 muni for a panzerwerfer barrage midcooldown? Not that great either, also you need to have t4 for that.
So that´s my conclusion after several games. But if you have another way of utilising him I want to hear it, because I generally like the concept of the artillery field officer.
13 Feb 2017, 10:35 AM
#7
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 326

bit useless but still... Lets say you have 2-3 wher mortars. If you use the 80 muni abillty the mortars firing range will be 160 (victor target mode) rather then the normal 80. basically you can out range the british pit and the 120mm.


http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=grw34_81mm_victor_target_mortar_mp (160 range)
13 Feb 2017, 10:42 AM
#8
avatar of steffenbk1

Posts: 128



You know how to use it? Tell me, I really tried to use him in 1vs1 and 2vs2 and I didn´t have much success.
Smoke is great if you face multiple maxims or Vickers, but when you would be better off with a mortar
-> better to safe muni and use smoke barrage from mortar. The accuracy buff is not that useful either, grens have usually more than enough accuracy, its survivability they lack -> better to invest in lmgs for more damage. And finally the vet 1 ability is overpriced and situationally. 80 muni for a panzerwerfer barrage midcooldown? Not that great either, also you need to have t4 for that.
So that´s my conclusion after several games. But if you have another way of utilising him I want to hear it, because I generally like the concept of the artillery field officer.



If you are going to use the Arty officer, you will have to go for the "joint operation doc" to really utilities it. You are using it with the one that has the tiger in from what i can gather(since you only mentioned the panzerwerfer), that of curse is pretty useless, since the only thing it will really benefit as you stated is the panzerwerfer. Arty officer is not a direct fighting unit, but a support unit. The arty officer is great for buffing infantry, and it is super cheap too 25 muni. And the only ability that is locked on the unit behind vet is the medic kit for 20 muni. Everything else is there from the minute you spawn it.

They way you have to utilities it, is to have it in the back. Behind your mainline infantry and building a Lehf to really get any effect. I've used it in 1v1 to great success before, since i can have one barrage in the fight area where my troops are, because i make my arty officer follow my main assault so it can also buff them, then i can use the barrage on the howizter itself to barrage the enemy main base. And if you use the barrage on the arty officer as the howitzer is on the last salvo, and you set the barrage in the same line as the howitzer then it will start shooting directly no breaks in between, and it is really effective because your opponent wont expect that.
13 Feb 2017, 10:44 AM
#9
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 188

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 10:35 AMSmaug
bit useless but still... Lets say you have 2-3 wher mortars. If you use the 80 muni abillty the mortars firing range will be 160 (victor target mode) rather then the normal 80. basically you can out range the british pit and the 120mm.


http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=grw34_81mm_victor_target_mortar_mp (160 range)


Ok but you need to move the officer close to the target, and the mortarpit can just brace and the 120mm runs away. And if you have 2-3 mortars you should be able to counter one mortar pit or a 120mm by barraging it from different locations, thus saving muni. But in general you can´t even build 2-3 mortar or every good opponent will destroy you, at least in 1vs1.
13 Feb 2017, 10:49 AM
#10
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 326



Ok but you need to move the officer close to the target, and the mortarpit can just brace and the 120mm runs away. And if you have 2-3 mortars you should be able to counter one mortar pit or a 120mm by barraging it from different locations, thus saving muni. But in general you can´t even build 2-3 mortar or every good opponent will destroy you, at least in 1vs1.


ye its impractical.
13 Feb 2017, 11:12 AM
#11
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 326




If you are going to use the Arty officer, you will have to go for the "joint operation doc" to really utilities it. You are using it with the one that has the tiger in from what i can gather(since you only mentioned the panzerwerfer), that of curse is pretty useless, since the only thing it will really benefit as you stated is the panzerwerfer. Arty officer is not a direct fighting unit, but a support unit. The arty officer is great for buffing infantry, and it is super cheap too 25 muni. And the only ability that is locked on the unit behind vet is the medic kit for 20 muni. Everything else is there from the minute you spawn it.

They way you have to utilities it, is to have it in the back. Behind your mainline infantry and building a Lehf to really get any effect. I've used it in 1v1 to great success before, since i can have one barrage in the fight area where my troops are, because i make my arty officer follow my main assault so it can also buff them, then i can use the barrage on the howizter itself to barrage the enemy main base. And if you use the barrage on the arty officer as the howitzer is on the last salvo, and you set the barrage in the same line as the howitzer then it will start shooting directly no breaks in between, and it is really effective because your opponent wont expect that.


can you stream some examples of it pls.. Id really like to see how top tier players play and handle it
13 Feb 2017, 11:18 AM
#12
avatar of steffenbk1

Posts: 128

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 11:12 AMSmaug


can you stream some examples of it pls.. Id really like to see how top tier players play and handle it


Took the words right out of my mouth, i am planing on streaming this to show as an example. Just need to perfect the build order for this strat.
13 Feb 2017, 11:26 AM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6279 | Subs: 1

Imo the majority of units (if not all) should vet that includes both Axis officer.

The aura bonuses of units should also become better with veterancy. Some of them could start with lower buff and become better with veterancy as Command panther work.

Especially for the Wer officer imo some help to vet is needed so either shared veterancy or/and a weapon upgraded is needed since the unit has low DPS (maybe a MP44 replacing the luger?)
13 Feb 2017, 11:34 AM
#14
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 188

Your concept is great, but in reality its only of use in rare cases. Going for a howitzer in 1vs1 is risky especially with so many things outright deleting it for a small munition cost. And if you manage to obtain the howitzer the cooldown becomes so low, once you hit vet 2-3, that you can barrage almost immediately again, thus rendering the officer useless. In addition this tactic only works with one commander, and the officer is at least in 3.
So I think we can agree that he definitely needs some buffs, not combat wise but support orientated.
13 Feb 2017, 12:07 PM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6279 | Subs: 1

Your concept is great, but in reality its only of use in rare cases. Going for a howitzer in 1vs1 is risky especially with so many things outright deleting it for a small munition cost. And if you manage to obtain the howitzer the cooldown becomes so low, once you hit vet 2-3, that you can barrage almost immediately again, thus rendering the officer useless. In addition this tactic only works with one commander, and the officer is at least in 3.
So I think we can agree that he definitely needs some buffs, not combat wise but support orientated.

If you replay is direct to me my point is that the Ostheer officer should be easier to vet.

That can be achieved either from shared vetrancy or/from weapon upgrade (or a faust).

Other than I agree this units should add via utility and not via direct combat.

The barrage is rather lucking especially compared to the stock Major barrage that does not require an arty unit to be present.

Maybe the unit to could be improve its utility by having an aura that affect only arty units like mortars, weffers and Lefh maybe shortening barrage or increasing barrage range accuracy. The officer then could share experience with these units.
13 Feb 2017, 12:40 PM
#16
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 188

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 12:07 PMVipper

If you replay is direct to me my point is that the Ostheer officer should be easier to vet.

That can be achieved either from shared vetrancy or/from weapon upgrade (or a faust).

Other than I agree this units should add via utility and not via direct combat.

The barrage is rather lucking especially compared to the stock Major barrage that does not require an arty unit to be present.

Maybe the unit to could be improve its utility by having an aura that affect only arty units like mortars, weffers and Lefh maybe shortening barrage or increasing barrage range accuracy. The officer then could share experience with these units.


I was referring to stefenbk1´s post about his usage of the artillery officer. But you have some good points.

What I would like to see are some good abilities. The idea of an aura only for indirect fire units sounds good, but rather boring. I would suggest a supervise ability (like us captain) only for mortars panzerwerfers and leigs, with various buffs to reload speed, accuracy and barrage cooldown. Additionally the officer should get an actual arty (like the major).
My idea behind this is, to have two playstyles, one more focussed on stationary arty support suited the lefh commander and the other one focussed around mobile support with combat bonuses, so you can skip t1 with Osttruppen commander and still have a form of artillery. Then get rid of the vet 1 medkit and the coordinated barrage ability and replace them with a new one. My idea would be a sort of kubel recon mode, where it detects artillery units in the fog of war within a radius. It would have a small munition cost and last about 30 secs. This ability would suit the theme of artillery commander and it would be useful in counter barraging or hunting down katyushas in the late game. The abilities should also scale with veterancy so giving him shared veterancy isn´t a bad idea.
This are my suggestions for a complete overhaul of the officer and in my opinion, it would make him a lot better. So what do you think?
13 Feb 2017, 16:05 PM
#17
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1

Give him back his 4 armor :hyper:

I'm outta actual ideas save for easier vetting by giving yet another unit "Gains veterancy from allies' doing damage" or just cost and pop reductions, and I wouldn't guarantee you that would be just right either.
13 Feb 2017, 16:11 PM
#18
avatar of RealName

Posts: 276

Not worth using, actually. Too situational, requires a bunch of artillery to use effectively, a waste of mp, too much risk and micro for a meh reward. Compare it to sturmoffizier (forgot whatsit called), who's a pretty good unit by itself (coz of the obers), has a permanent aura, and has nice abilities worth using.

Arty officer needs a range buff on its coordinated fire imo. Or a muni reduction. or both.
13 Feb 2017, 17:29 PM
#19
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

This unit has to be more effective than a gren squad, and right now it certainly isn't. It doesn't help that its biggest utility is the ability to call in barrage strikes off cool down, but in most games this is only mortars for Ost.

The unit should probably share vet.
13 Feb 2017, 17:40 PM
#20
avatar of Domine

Posts: 431

I would like to give the same treatment to the OKW Sturm officer
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