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russian armor

Problems I have with the game

27 Oct 2016, 21:59 PM
#1
avatar of Angrade (Ægion)
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 766 | Subs: 2

1. Standard Infantry
Some infantry are inherently better at certain ranges. This is fine, but infantry that straight out wins at all ranges is not good. First off, I am not talking about upgrades, I am referring to freshly built infantry. The Conscripts vs Grenadiers is a good example of good asymmetrical balance. A bad example, Penals will be Grenadiers at all ranges. Penals are suppose to be the soviet's mid range unit while shocks are the close range and the guards are long range. So why should non doctrinal beginning of the game infantry be just better than its counterparts? Grenadiers and penals have both the same teching costs, not to mention. To create a balanced game, there needs to be a good baseline. Additionally, with under-performing units, sending in pairs or blobs is there only answer and this will cause the opponent to blob too.

Here is my solution on how to balance starting infantry.

Grenadiers
-Switch MG42 and Grenadiers
Grenadiers are simply better to have when starting the game to capture terrioties. This change also helps cut down the sniper usage and MG spaming.

Penals
-decrease the squad size to 5 from 6
-change manpower from 300 to 250


Infantry Section
-Change target size from .8 to .91
-Change manpower cost from 280 to 250
Infantry Sections will still be very potent but this will hopeful help cut the power level of bolster squad

Rifleman
-Change individual health from 80 to 70
-Change manpower cost from 280 to 260

2. Population Cost and Upkeep costs

In the current state, some factions have very high population costs and some factions have very low population costs. This also translates to upkeep costs.
For example: Osteer vs USF: the Pak 40 has 9 population and all other at guns have 7. At 2 additional population, that is about 3 additional manpower per minute. An Ost player would get a pak around the 7 to 8 minute mark. A Ost also must build and extra engineer seeing he can not use vehicle crews to repair his vehicles. Pioneers also cost 1 additional population or about 1.5 more manpower each. And lets say the game goes on for about another 20 minutes. Grenadiers and the superior Riflemen cost the same amount of population.

For 2 pak 2 pioneers vs 2 M1 at gun and 1 RE the upkeep difference is 330 across 20 minutes, enough value to build another combat squad. This might not seem like much but it does make a difference

Some population discrepancies are
-Pak 40 is 9 population while others are 7
-M2 HMG is 5 population while others are 6
-pioneers are 6 population while Combat engineers and RE are 5
-Penals/Riflemen/Infantry Sections are 7 while the inferior Grenadiers are also 7

3. USF free officers

Why does USF Receive free elite infantry when teching up? This help contributes to the man spam play style of the faction. My suggestion is that they should buy the officer separate from teching

4. other minor changes

Royal Engineers have too small of a target size
-change target size from .8 to 1. This will make it more a supporting role than a combat role.

Engineers should only have one weapon slot instead of two. Additionally to make engineers more of a support role than a combat role.

Guards having both ptrs and Dp 28s
-Guards start un-upgraded and choose one exclusive upgrade.

Possible change for the mortar pit, add in a mobile mortar and make mortars able to be put in trenches again.

5. beating a dead horse here

Remove crush from m10s

One pick up on brens, M1919 and bars

doctrines without teching

etc.





29 Oct 2016, 08:24 AM
#2
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1

Having early stock units that perform excellent in all ranges without weapons upgrades is problematic.

You can see more of what is wrong imo here:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/243240/weapon-profiles-and-relative-positioning
29 Oct 2016, 09:15 AM
#3
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Messing with infantry entities' health like that is an extremely dangerous proposition - for example, Volksgrenadiers do 12 damage per hit and will take one hit less to kill the proposed Riflemen's models, but Grenadiers do 16 damage per hit and will still take 5 hits to kill Riflemen entities and so these changes would basically "buff" Riflemen's effectiveness early-game against Grenadiers since their performance against Grenadiers will see no change but they will be cheaper. Not to mention this would make them more vulnerable to AoE which I'm strictly against after the suffering of many 4-man squads in light cover - an eye an for eye makes the whole world ragequit from one-shot gibs.

To nerf Riflemen, it is far better to simply nerf their price, accuracy, target size, etc. than messing with the complexities of infantry health.
29 Oct 2016, 12:47 PM
#4
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

Penals need to be better at AI than grens because they have no other function besides AI. There has to be a reason to choose them over infantry that can throw AT grenades.
29 Oct 2016, 12:53 PM
#5
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1

Penals need to be better at AI than grens because they have no other function besides AI. There has to be a reason to choose them over infantry that can throw AT grenades.

Penal are currently poorly implement in live:
1)They come to early for any semi-elite infantry (when Relic moved Guards and Shock to CP1 they game become broken)
2)Their DPS is too good at all ranges, they should have a strength in a specific range and a weakness in another as most other stock units (and allot doctrinal).

When Relic made the patch they partially implement the Mod changes ending up with far worse result.

The changes to Penals from the mod which where not include :
-Flamethrower Upgrade now adds 3 PPsh-41s to better mesh with the flamethrower.
-Flamethrower cost from 60 to 90 and renamed Assault Package.
-Population from 7 to 8.

and where Penal work better because the upgrade is more expensive and changes the orientation of the unit to mid to close (since they lose about 60% of their far DPs when upgraded), and also have a higher Pop.
29 Oct 2016, 13:30 PM
#6
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Penals need to be better at AI than grens because they have no other function besides AI. There has to be a reason to choose them over infantry that can throw AT grenades.


There is no reason to choose conscripts, they suck so hard..
30 Oct 2016, 21:36 PM
#7
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1


There is no reason to choose conscripts, they suck so hard..

Well they are conscripts, so what do you expect?

Molotov is goof for clearing MGs tho.
Also early game, reinforcement of the weapon teams is easy peasy. Thats why they are so versatile
31 Oct 2016, 01:10 AM
#8
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

at least conscrips can use "Merge"ability so you main infantry like Penal and Guard no need retreat everytime
31 Oct 2016, 01:15 AM
#9
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374

at least conscrips can use "Merge"ability so you main infantry like Penal and Guard no need retreat everytime


so underused, so effective
31 Oct 2016, 01:17 AM
#10
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374

problems i have with the game.
not enough explosions,
multiplayer is to competitive for what the game is.
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