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russian armor

PanzerJaegers - A few questions.

24 Apr 2016, 23:48 PM
#1
avatar of ABlockOfSalt

Posts: 70

Is there a reason the idea is canned so quickly? Not being a dick, just an actual question.

It's been my (limited) experience that the mech truck is the best truck to go with first. There is almost no reason for me to go with a medical truck first, the bleed I'm suffering (usually) isn't terribly high at the point in the game where I am making truck choices as well as it doesn't unlock units that I have a pressing need for.

-The Flaktrack is good, no question but an MG34 is sometimes just as good for what I need. More importantly a flaktrack (unvetted) isn't very durable and offers no help vs that early 70/stuart/aec that you know is coming with the current meta. Yes, I COULD use it to punish penals and shocks and rifles...or I could just build a luchs and wipe the squad.

-The ISG is good, I love that I get smoke now, but isn't something I usually need early on. There are rarely enough MG's to warrant me smoking and assaulting a position rather than just going around.

-The owl is a gimick and I don't even consider it unless I'm already winning.

The Mech truck gives me much better offensive and reactive options.

-Luchs if they decided to run around without AT (Soviets going penals is going to be more popular I'd imagine, LT openingings, boffors emplacements, etc)I am going to punish them. Hard.

-Puma is self explanatory. The early vehicle that they are in all likelihood going to push out is going to get eaten by the Puma pretty handily. As long as I can keep it alive until he gets some mediums out then I am in a pretty good spot.

-Stuka is a weird "maybe" depending what Im up against.


OKW has no lack of AT but all of the options to chase or hunt down armour in the early game are in the mech truck. Hard counters to infantry spam are in the mech truck. Hard counters to emplacements are in the mechtruck...Until I NEED the healing for Obers I don't really need the med truck since volks are so cheap to replace.

So a basic proposition; have the med truck acquire PanzerJaegers

"PanzerJaegers" - 300/8 (3 for the squad, 1 for each individual member)
-Volks stats/Price to reinforce
-Copy pasted PTRS rifles from Guards
-Copy pasted Mosins from Engineers, renamed to their german counterparts.
-Start with the PTRS
-T3 unlocks the upgrade for shreks, they pay 120mu and they trade in their PTRS clones.

300 Cost keeps them as a dedicated "do not build this if there is no armour" unit which is less efficient but more utilitarian than a racketten

Can't spam them, because they're an awful combat squad against infantry. Later on they become even less useful vs infantry if you upgrade the shreks.

Synergizes well with the medical truck (more infantry and all) as well as providing the same basic functionality as guards : finish off/spook light vehicles.

Synergizes well with raks since they are not directionally faced and can turn about to scare off a poorly executed flank. If the T70/stuart is already ontop of your rak the snare from the volks doesn't do much to help it. It has to retreat.

Synergizes with volks-swarms to be their light AT backup. They all benifit from the med truck and they work basically like guards+Conscript teams

Relieves the MU cost of spamming fausts which can get fairly expensive if you've had resource interruptions.


Just a thought. It seems like its the easiest answer to the idea of players wanting to go with an infantry heavy medtruck build that doesn't involve tweaking the Rak to the point of mirroring the dynamics with Conscript AT nades and Zisguns.
25 Apr 2016, 00:26 AM
#2
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2178 | Subs: 4

It's a good idea, but I have no faith in Relic adding a new squad for free. They are experimenting with the USF mortar, but that is already in the game in Ardennes Assault. Too much work for it I fear.
25 Apr 2016, 00:51 AM
#3
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

I'd love to say yes to this, but then everyone gets really pissy.
25 Apr 2016, 01:04 AM
#4
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 923

The idea hasn't been canned so to speak, it hasn't been explored.

The main reasons I'd think this idea is good is the following.

  • It gives all the HQ units the kind of symmetry of AT, AI and utility. Med truck lacks any AT units.
  • You can get rid of the gimmicky Maphack truck
  • You can get rid of Volk Schrecks without gimping Infantry AT while also getting rid of Schreck blobs.


The reason it hasn't been explored is because its a relatively niche idea.

I kinda elaborated this idea here to start with, but no-one's really jumped on it apart from Karbinder.
25 Apr 2016, 01:05 AM
#5
avatar of Hikuran

Posts: 182

If Soviets and USF weren't buffed that much at this patch, I would consider this "Schreck for faust" a acceptable change.

But with medics and repair engineers removed and Penals buffed, OKW is as good as dead. One PanzerJaeger won't change that. Even Volks still have them OKW still faces a big threat
25 Apr 2016, 01:06 AM
#6
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 923

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:05 AMHikuran
If Soviets and USF weren't buffed that much at this patch, I would consider this "Schreck for faust" a acceptable change.

But with medics and repair engineers removed and Penals buffed, OKW is as good as dead. One PanzerJaeger won't change that. Even Volks still have them OKW still faces a big threat


^This

Good luck fighting Maxim/ATG creep as OKW with so little offmaps.

T-70 can kite for days with this patch.
25 Apr 2016, 01:08 AM
#7
avatar of Hikuran

Posts: 182

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:06 AMhubewa


^This

Good luck fighting Maxim/ATG creep as OKW with so little offmaps.

T-70 can kite for days with this patch.


Dshk is only 40mp more expensive than Maxim but is far better, Paulad has considered Dshk as the new spam
25 Apr 2016, 01:09 AM
#8
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

Honestly? Because the okw dosnt really need it. Its a robust all around army that has everything could want. It will take a little bit to get use to but the options are there and they are hefty ones.
25 Apr 2016, 01:11 AM
#9
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:09 AMGenObi
but the options are there and they are hefty ones.

Where's the option for mobile handheld AT? Did I miss something?
25 Apr 2016, 01:14 AM
#10
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522


Where's the option for mobile handheld AT? Did I miss something?


I meant specifically At options in general and not mobile ones, Sov dont have mobile at options in there tree unless they get doc and they are doing just fine.
25 Apr 2016, 01:16 AM
#11
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 923

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:14 AMGenObi


I meant specifically At options in general and not mobile ones, Sov dont have mobile at options in there tree unless they get doc and they are doing just fine.


Except Sovs have an AT gun that can actually penn something and has range.

Plus a plethora of AT vehicles that can scale well into the game, unlike OKW.
25 Apr 2016, 01:16 AM
#12
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:14 AMGenObi


I meant specifically At options in general and not mobile ones, Sov dont have mobile at options in there tree unless they get doc and they are doing just fine.

I have no worry for soviets considering them and USF are getting buffs left and right, so with Relic giving OKW a huge vulnerability to early-mid game tanks, that is a big no no.
25 Apr 2016, 01:18 AM
#13
avatar of Hikuran

Posts: 182


I have no worry for soviets considering them and USF are getting buffs left and right, so with Relic giving OKW a huge vulnerability to early to mid game tanks, that is a big no no.


Honestly with a buff like that, Soviet can chew OKW alive even without armour support
25 Apr 2016, 01:21 AM
#14
avatar of Waegukin

Posts: 609

2x volk PzB. Not needing Pumas to respond to Allied light vehicles would probably allow the medic truck to become enticing again as platform for P4 rush, if nothing else.
25 Apr 2016, 01:25 AM
#15
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:16 AMhubewa


Except Sovs have an AT gun that can actually penn something and has range.

Plus a plethora of AT vehicles that can scale well into the game, unlike OKW.


Ah okay? So here is why your wrong

Raket Pen 270 MP no tech
200.0/190.0/180.0

Sov 76 mm at gun pen 320 MP tech 2
200.0/190.0/180.0

So iam guessing you mean light vechales because actual tanks defiantly are in okw favor so well talk about that..

T70 has a 45 mm cannon vs pumas 50mm high velocity

Sov have 50 cal half track vs okw p2 light tank and flak track both of which are 20 mm cannons...

So.....yeah your wrong...
25 Apr 2016, 01:32 AM
#16
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522


I have no worry for soviets considering them and USF are getting buffs left and right, so with Relic giving OKW a huge vulnerability to early-mid game tanks, that is a big no no.


I had to read the oatch notes agian after reading thia just to make sure i didnt miss anything, turns out that other then penals role being redfine for a different role there is no direct buffs in regards to core mainline infantry.

Apprently your talking out of your as s.
25 Apr 2016, 01:36 AM
#17
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:16 AMhubewa


Except Sovs have an AT gun that can actually penn something and has range.

Plus a plethora of AT vehicles that can scale well into the game, unlike OKW.

!?!?!?!?!?

Raketen's penetration per range increments is exactly the same as the ZiS-3's.

Ok, so the ZiS-3 will have 10 more penetration at range 30 compared to Raketen, I guess...

And now let's count the Soviets' AT-dedicated vehicles:
1. SU-76
2. SU-85

Now for OKW's:
1. Puma
2. Jagdpanzer IV
3. Panther
25 Apr 2016, 01:40 AM
#18
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:36 AMVuther

!?!?!?!?!?

Raketen's penetration per range increments is exactly the same as the ZiS-3's.

Ok, so the ZiS-3 will have 10 more penetration at range 30 compared to Raketen, I guess...

And now let's count the Soviets' AT-dedicated vehicles:
1. SU-76
2. SU-85

Now for OKW's:
1. Puma
2. Jagdpanzer IV
3. Panther


Lol i love how your post started, I guess because we both heard a little crazy there!!
!?!?!?!
25 Apr 2016, 01:43 AM
#19
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 923

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:36 AMVuther

!?!?!?!?!?

Raketen's penetration per range increments is exactly the same as the ZiS-3's.

Ok, so the ZiS-3 will have 10 more penetration at range 30 compared to Raketen, I guess...

And now let's count the Soviets' AT-dedicated vehicles:
1. SU-76
2. SU-85

Now for OKW's:
1. Puma
2. Jagdpanzer IV
3. Panther


Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the range of the Raketen is 50 whereas ZIS is 60, or I'm running off old stats.
25 Apr 2016, 01:46 AM
#20
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:43 AMhubewa


Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the range of the Raketen is 50 whereas ZIS is 60, or I'm running off old stats.
Don't forget about it being easily wiped by just about any explosive.
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