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russian armor

Fixing the Brits

15 Feb 2016, 09:37 AM
#21
avatar of Spinflight

Posts: 680

You might be better listing this as bullet points for buffs / nerfs.

Just looks like an Axis wishlist of nerfs so far with a few tiny and inconsequential buffs.

Frankly, whilst I will assume your intentions are honourable, talking about 'fixing' a faction which you apparently don't play much in isolation probably isn't that helpful. Even amongst those that do there are significantly different playstyles ( emplacements get the hate mail, tanks the loveletters in my experience) which should be taken into account.

As a small example you can't really talk about emplacements in isolation. Halving their HP whilst leaving Leigs / mortar / shreck blobs intact on the other side would make them less than useless. You might think the bofors needs tuning down, though anyone regularly coming up against the Schwerer probably wonders what you are on about... 17pdr has much bigger problems than merely popcap. It is so large that there are very few places to use one etc etc... Indeed the only use I've found for this static AT is taking out the equally static but very scary Schwerer!

15 Feb 2016, 09:58 AM
#22
avatar of RiCE

Posts: 284

I like these changes, except maybe the one regarding the Infantry Sections. I think IS is already one of the strongest (if not the strongest) main infantry. All you need to do is to put them in a cover.
15 Feb 2016, 10:17 AM
#23
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2200 | Subs: 1

instea of writing that essay OP could've just played some games to get better and get quicker results
15 Feb 2016, 10:48 AM
#24
avatar of Flying Dustbin

Posts: 270 | Subs: 1

I am all for decent buffs to UKF.
IMO the Universal Carrier should be able to cap territory on its own like the Kubel. It would help brits bad early map presence.
15 Feb 2016, 11:48 AM
#25
avatar of ashxu

Posts: 124

I am all for decent buffs to UKF.
IMO the Universal Carrier should be able to cap territory on its own like the Kubel. It would help brits bad early map presence.

I disagree, as much as I want buffs, it's a carrier, not a scout vehicle. Also keep in mind the UC becomes pretty good in offensive power with the Wasp upgrade. It's just too fragile and will die to a 222 or stray volks schreck blob.
15 Feb 2016, 12:29 PM
#26
avatar of tenid

Posts: 232

Have to strongly disagree with the notion of a bofors health nerf.

Your suggestion of 480 health would have it die to 4 shrecks or 3 pak rounds. It would be rendered utterly trivial to counter.
15 Feb 2016, 15:22 PM
#27
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

I wish this had been posted sooner so we could talk about it more before the patch notes are released. In any case some things in your post are really good OP, but your changes to emplacements make them nearly useless.

For instance, the 15 pop cap for a 17 pdr does nothing when it is still hard countered by the JT (it outranges the emplacement!). To top it off the 17 pdr costs fuel, takes damage from everything, leaves a noticeable splat in FoW, and is killed and never decrewed. The gun needs more than being 1/2 as good as the pak 43.

The mortar pit, I generally agree with you, too effective but a high risk high reward. It needs both nerfs and buffs to be brought in line.

A straight nerf to the Boffers is kinda crazy though. If the Brit player forgoes AEC how are they supposed to even begin to hold map while slowing down their tech when they construct it? Right now it is a really annoying unit that prevents infantry play, but if you are going to reduce its health so drastically it is going to need more to even be marginal. A single ISG will eat it up as it stands, and as you have it here the first shell would immediately force brace in all situations. The range of the Boffers ability makes it hard to use and you might consider a buff there.
15 Feb 2016, 15:23 PM
#28
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 11:48 AMashxu

I disagree, as much as I want buffs, it's a carrier, not a scout vehicle.


a carrier that can't reinforce and can't act as firing platform, unlike every other carrier in game.

the bren carrier is a combat vehicle first and foremost. Its ability to transport is basically useless and its scout capability almost non-existent.

15 Feb 2016, 15:52 PM
#29
avatar of Nabarxos

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 08:22 AMSvanh

I haven't actually touched Brace. The reason the Bofors and Mortar Pit have less health in Brace after my changes is because Brace's main effect is to reduce incoming damage by 25%, not give the emplacements more health. I'm sorry if you already knew this, just making sure we're on the same page. :)

The Bofors costs only 10 manpower more than an M5 Halftrack and is significantly more durable and dangerous. I think some reduction in health is justified given that it is the smallest emplacement and has the most health.

I reduced both the Mortar Pit's DPS and health by 25% to justify the 25% reduction in price to this forum. I agree that two 25% nerfs are a bit much.

Thank you for the correction on the Pak43's pop cost. I still think 15 pop is better for heavy AT guns like the 17 Pounder/Pak43 but that's an issue for a "Fixing the OKW" thread. What do you think of increasing the 17 Pounder's health from 900 to 1000? It's less problematic than a 1000 health Bofors due to its limited target selection and would let it take one more AT gun shot (two more under brace).

Please suggest some changes to my emplacement suggestions. I don't have as much experience with the 17 Pounder and Bofors as I'd like.


I love a serious discussion about emplacements :D

Bofors:a static anti air,Anti light vehicle(not light tanks),Anti infantry that is durable and can attack only units in its range and also needs side tech (which you want to make mandatory for next tier which is nice).

This unit can be killed with mortars (which both axis factions have)since the bofors can't attack them from such range and light tanks(not armored cars or vehicles) and last flame weapons (not alone) which decimate emplacements.
And that's units that arrive sooner and/or at the same time as the bofors.

So cost wise and counter wise the bofors is pretty balanced from that point only the stupid barrage needs removal as it breaks the cycle of balance and a size decrease so it can be placed in many more places.

17 pounder: static,heavy at gun,durable.
You covered it your self,this unit only attacks vehicles/tanks and is weak to infantry as well as mortars,artillery/rocket artillery.

10-12 cap would be helpful alot more than 15 cap(which is still insane for a static at gun) and then a size decrease to help place it cause currently it's a nightmare to place one while also taking more shoots from artillery which in turn increase the damage it takes,after that its either a slight price decrease or a durability increase or allow it to have a Vickers inside.

And lastly mortar pit
It's a more balanced sniper that is more dreadful to face,this unit doesn't like moving targets much and also has minimum range,it would make more sence to make it cost 260 and be an emplacement with one mortar with the ability to pay extra for another one(current double mortar pit) and allow it to be built early with out killing gameplay and be build from sections and upgrade with cost after you tech,it's also a nice idea to split durability with the extra mortar upgrade (half current durability with one mortar,current durability with second mortar upgrade).


Durability nerfs are just bad cause it basically kills their strength (sacrifice mobility for durability) and also doesn't take into account the extra damage they receive from certain sources while also their inability to react to anything (since brace won't really help the emplacement after that).

And think of brace as a retreat action to allow emplacements to survive oneshot abilitys (railway,stutm tiger shot).
15 Feb 2016, 16:25 PM
#30
avatar of Spinflight

Posts: 680

"I disagree, as much as I want buffs, it's a carrier, not a scout vehicle."

Actually it was universal in that it could easily be outfitted with all sorts of kit. One of these was adding a couple of wireless sets, a drum cable layer for secure comms and optics for the scout or forward observation role.

Heavily used as such by the RA though even a basic Bren with it's low profile and agility was very useful for scouting.
16 Feb 2016, 17:10 PM
#31
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Feb 2016, 12:39 PMDomine


Woah, I have to disagree there. With all respect to your skill, Bofors wipes left and right and has barrage, is nigh unkillable and a Mortar pit will kill any Leig, while Stuka doesn't counter neither of those.


No, the Leig simply (hard)counters all british emplacements. Leig gets +15 range at vet 1 which makes it super effective against mortar pits. A single Leig will force brace and repairs. Simply tell it to attack ground on the mortar pit and it will go away. Double Leigs counters all emplacement play, and will also destroy them fairly quickly unless the opponent uses Stead Fast and rushes heavy royal engineers. Triple Leigs will destroy even the most determined emplacement user.
16 Feb 2016, 17:13 PM
#32
avatar of Nabarxos

Posts: 392



No, the Leig simply (hard)counters all british emplacements. Leig gets +15 range at vet 1 which makes it super effective against mortar pits. A single Leig will force brace and repairs. Simply tell it to attack ground on the mortar pit and it will go away. Double Leigs counters all emplacement play, and will also destroy them fairly quickly unless the opponent uses Stead Fast and rushes heavy royal engineers. Triple Leigs will destroy even the most determined emplacement user.


I believe the ISG gets +5range not 15 cause it's insane
16 Feb 2016, 17:14 PM
#33
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653



No, the Leig simply (hard)counters all british emplacements. Leig gets +15 range at vet 1 which makes it super effective against mortar pits. A single Leig will force brace and repairs. Simply tell it to attack ground on the mortar pit and it will go away. Double Leigs counters all emplacement play, and will also destroy them fairly quickly unless the opponent uses Stead Fast and rushes heavy royal engineers. Triple Leigs will destroy even the most determined emplacement user.


It depends how good the LeIG user is, so many people put them too close in range Kappa
16 Feb 2016, 17:17 PM
#34
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1



I believe the ISG gets +5range not 15 cause it's insane


I'm 99% sure it's +15. 5 range is like the size of a T70; it's fairly sure the vet 1 bonus gives more bonus range than that.
16 Feb 2016, 17:27 PM
#35
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1



I'm 99% sure it's +15. 5 range is like the size of a T70; it's fairly sure the vet 1 bonus gives more bonus range than that.


I think it was +15 range, which is now reverted to +5 range at vet 1.
16 Feb 2016, 20:46 PM
#36
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

squad_actions/change_target_action/actions/apply_modifiers_action/modifiers/range_weapon_modifier/value = 1.05
16 Feb 2016, 20:59 PM
#37
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1

squad_actions/change_target_action/actions/apply_modifiers_action/modifiers/range_weapon_modifier/value = 1.05


Thank you for clarifying.

My point however remains as it is, and that is that the Leig simply hardcounters the mortar pit. The huge size of the mortar pit makes it an easy target for the Leig at max range, whilst the small size of the Leig makes it a difficult target for the mortar pit to counter barrage.
16 Feb 2016, 21:22 PM
#38
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653



I'm 99% sure it's +15. 5 range is like the size of a T70; it's fairly sure the vet 1 bonus gives more bonus range than that.


Reverted to +5 range
16 Feb 2016, 21:39 PM
#39
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



No, the Leig simply (hard)counters all british emplacements. Leig gets +15 range at vet 1 which makes it super effective against mortar pits. A single Leig will force brace and repairs. Simply tell it to attack ground on the mortar pit and it will go away. Double Leigs counters all emplacement play, and will also destroy them fairly quickly unless the opponent uses Stead Fast and rushes heavy royal engineers. Triple Leigs will destroy even the most determined emplacement user.


keep in mind if you talk about vet that mortar pit gets insane range with vet too and it vets up quite fast.

and keep in mind that ostheer doenst have a LEIG, its not only OKW brits are playing against.
16 Feb 2016, 22:34 PM
#40
avatar of Spinflight

Posts: 680

There are no range buffs with vet for the pit that I know about...

Actually against good players you struggle to vet the pit up. It gets xp for kills not damage so people who don't leave their units lying around in the open to be mortared don't lose so many models to it. Helps the infantry vet up as they are up against lower health models.

Ostheer has plenty of tools for taking pits out, frankly keeping one alive for more than a few minutes is a challenge.

Talking of vet though other than vet3 with a health buff and smoke ( I think) at vet2 the vet is useless. There is a recharge time buff for bombard, which is bugged and unused.
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