Single DP28 is not too much. I mean, it's like half of LMG42.
From my point of view, Cons are long range units which can be "upgraded" by Guards.
Penals are close range units which can be "upgraded" by Shocks.
Like I said, only thing Penals need is survability.
Plus DP28 complelty does not fit Penals. They are close range unit with semi auto with ooorah while DP28 is long range lmg and cannot be used on the move.
Beef's Beef: Soviet Infantry Woes
7 Feb 2016, 21:59 PM
#61
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
7 Feb 2016, 22:33 PM
#62
Posts: 1891
Penals damage without flamer is poor, rifle damage (or accuracy, fire rate, whatever) needs an increase before health increase. Any hypothetical dp28 upgrade can have bar stats, or come with two, etc. for the sake of discussing the means and necessity of a change specific implementation matters little because we don't work for lelic.
I think that cons aren't analogous to guards because it's guards purpose to kill things and hurt vehicles, while its cons explicit purpose to snare vehicles, build sandbags, flank with oorah while feeding XP to the enemy, etc. Your right on about Penals>shocks though.
I also really enjoy the early game infantry skirmishing of riflemen, cons etc taking cover while others come in and flank, it's very tactical and why I love coh-current Penals reward you for ambushing from los blockers or simply moving into your opponents face with flamers and carbines. (the current usage of the unit.)
I think that cons aren't analogous to guards because it's guards purpose to kill things and hurt vehicles, while its cons explicit purpose to snare vehicles, build sandbags, flank with oorah while feeding XP to the enemy, etc. Your right on about Penals>shocks though.
I also really enjoy the early game infantry skirmishing of riflemen, cons etc taking cover while others come in and flank, it's very tactical and why I love coh-current Penals reward you for ambushing from los blockers or simply moving into your opponents face with flamers and carbines. (the current usage of the unit.)
The Fascisti Will Pay.
7 Feb 2016, 23:28 PM
#63
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Accuracy? They have +60%accuracy with vet. That's insane number.
No one will ever convince that DP28 aka BAR would be better upgrade than flamethrower for Penals.
By Cons -> Guards I meant long range unit -> better long range unit. Not abilities.
No one will ever convince that DP28 aka BAR would be better upgrade than flamethrower for Penals.
By Cons -> Guards I meant long range unit -> better long range unit. Not abilities.
8 Feb 2016, 01:11 AM
#64
Posts: 1891
I want penal rifle dps, never said it had to be accuracy. (Strawman? Idk tbh but I want to sound smart)
And following your con/guard logic, cons are upgraded engineers (discounting abilities
)
And following your con/guard logic, cons are upgraded engineers (discounting abilities
)
The Fascisti Will Pay.
8 Feb 2016, 02:42 AM
#65
Posts: 951
A buff to Penals SVT at range and giving them dual DP28s as an upgrade would make them the line-holding infantry that get wrecked out of cover (glass cannons), while Cons would flank. I would say this has better synergy with the rest of the Soviet lineup, since Cons have Hoorah and a doctrinal PPSH upgrade.
Guards would still be viable for their ability to counter light vehicles and Button Vehicle with their DP28 upgrade.
Currently testing this out in Attribute Editor.
Guards would still be viable for their ability to counter light vehicles and Button Vehicle with their DP28 upgrade.
Currently testing this out in Attribute Editor.
NON VOS TURBATIS
8 Feb 2016, 06:19 AM
#66
Posts: 5279
Single DP28 is not too much. I mean, it's like half of LMG42.
From my point of view, Cons are long range units which can be "upgraded" by Guards.
Penals are close range units which can be "upgraded" by Shocks.
Like I said, only thing Penals need is survability.
Plus DP28 complelty does not fit Penals. They are close range unit with semi auto with ooorah while DP28 is long range lmg and cannot be used on the move.
What about an AVT (full auto variant of the svt) for a close range dps buff, kinda like the PPSH upgrade, but as a non doc alternative that requires a utilityless unit. With the 60% vet accuracy they could become damn nasty, sorta like obers with stgs.
#stalinwept
8 Feb 2016, 09:59 AM
#67
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
What about an AVT (full auto variant of the svt) for a close range dps buff, kinda like the PPSH upgrade, but as a non doc alternative that requires a utilityless unit. With the 60% vet accuracy they could become damn nasty, sorta like obers with stgs.
+60% accuracy means nothing of they don't get rec. acc. bonus
8 Feb 2016, 19:37 PM
#68
Posts: 5279
Thats why I think it could work. You would have cons who vet up defensively and penals as a offensive option if you dont pick a commander that gives shocks or PPSH cons. Their low recc acc means they can be focus fired and would require flanks and such to be used well (vs shocks for example) so there is counter play but it would give the soviet a solid non doc attack squad that isnt maxims
+60% accuracy means nothing of they don't get rec. acc. bonus
#stalinwept
8 Feb 2016, 19:45 PM
#69
Posts: 1891
Glass cannon infantry can be good
The Fascisti Will Pay.
8 Feb 2016, 19:47 PM
#70
Posts: 1486
thread of another patient with his clinical balace ideas.
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8 Feb 2016, 20:09 PM
#71
Posts: 275 | Subs: 1
Any hypothetical dp28 upgrade can have bar stats
Sounds like AVS
Accuracy? They have +60%accuracy with vet. That's insane number.
Penals usless without flame throwers. They their SVT is completely overnerfed. If they do zero damage +60% accuracy means nothing.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
8 Feb 2016, 22:26 PM
#72
Posts: 301
Glass cannon infantry can be good
Clearly not in CoH2. Soviets don't need another unit with mp drain.
9 Feb 2016, 19:06 PM
#73
8 Posts: 2470
Clearly not in CoH2.
they can, snipers being a good example, but they cannot be a whole faction and they cannot be the only (effective) unit in a role. that leaves very few spots for glass cannons; basically units like the stug and sniper.
9 Feb 2016, 19:44 PM
#74
Posts: 468
they can, snipers being a good example, but they cannot be a whole faction and they cannot be the only (effective) unit in a role. that leaves very few spots for glass cannons; basically units like the stug and sniper.
and out comes Fallschimjaegers!!!!!!!!! boom glass cannon unit, evaporated!or multiple if you used them together like sometimes dual snipers.
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