Sniper units, the paper tiger

Disclaimer: mostly from the point of view of a player that plays mostly 2v2 and up.


See allot of people that seem to not know how to react to snipers, here is my bit on how to react to snipers.

-just don't.


People overstate the importance of snipers and yesterday i had a 2v2 game with a friend which showcased that.

We were managing to control the engagement and force the enemy to react, the brit enemy goes double sniper, which is really annoying. Despite we not losing any significant amount of map control, it was getting to him on a mental level. He was fretting over a non issue, we had the offensive upper hand, we had comfortable ticket margin and the enemy was considerably support weapon heavy, which was easy to deal with by using stuka zu fuss and mortar halftracks.

Snipers seem more like psychological tool, they tend to do better vs people that get overly frustrated. I used to get annoyed at snipers until i realized that the enemy that goes sniper heavy is sacrificing : map control, offensive power and resources on a harassment tool that requires painstaking micro management.

The only viable sniper build IMHO is when you already cement your superiority in the early game and map control is no longer an issue. Only then.

IF you can kill a sniper, great, but never overreact and just mold your army around what essentially is a troll unit.

Hope it helps

Hello.

Massing snipers is a valid tactic in 3v3 4v4 as you abandon your field presence to give one of your ally a powerful (but fragile) support force. very map dependant and tend to be countered by the mortars that flourish during thoses games.

In 1v1 an unanswerd sniper bleed a guy every 6 second.
His role is to force one of the four folowing answers:
- The ennemy move forward with 2+ squads and hope for some lucky bullets to end the sniper's life. Knowing this you can position to welcome his vengeful charge.
- The ennemy build a mortar or two and hope for some lucky shot. A mortar is of more debatable use in 1v1 against someone that does not use teamweapon. If you are mobile he made a unit that will not help him.
- The ennemy unleash the wrath of a sniper-hunter specialised unit in the form of a kubel/Halftrack/M20 that do get a bonus for shooting at a sniper. Once again if you can predict such a behaviour you can quickly score a vehicle kill in your favor.
- The ennemy will hide behind a building or retreat a little and gather all his forces, forcing the sniper either to put himself into a dangerous zone or beeing an expensive spotter with nothing to shoot at. Then, with all the ennemy forces at the same spot, the sniper is far less effective and protected. Things will then move to answer 1.

The best snipers are not lonewolfs.

Kozo.

Ps :If this is a british sniper, just hide into a building oh wait. was it fixed?

Once you've had games with snipers getting 100+ kills (this means around 2500 manpower with 360 mp investment) you're going to realize the importance of the unit.

This also allows your weaker troops to beat stronger units easily, for example you can beat Obers with LMGs with only cons + 1 sniper and your opponents cant do anything about it, the fight would have been a free win without the sniper around

Ostheer sniper on the other hand allows you to win almost all fights early on in the game, you can just have grens go up the front against rifles and have the sniper to weaken them up while the grens take the heat

Brit sniper is even more annoying since it can stun tanks etc but is easier to deal with imo compared to ostheer sniper. I have managed to kill Tigers with the stun shot since there's no real way of fighting without your turret turning

Snipers are a extremely strong tool in the right hands, risky to make if you don't have the skill to micro, but if you do it's gonna reek havoc

Once you've had games with snipers getting 100+ kills (this means around 2500 manpower with 360 mp investment) you're going to realize the importance of the unit.

This also allows your weaker troops to beat stronger units easily, for example you can beat Obers with LMGs with only cons + 1 sniper and your opponents cant do anything about it, the fight would have been a free win without the sniper around

Ostheer sniper on the other hand allows you to win almost all fights early on in the game, you can just have grens go up the front against rifles and have the sniper to weaken them up while the grens take the heat

Brit sniper is even more annoying since it can stun tanks etc but is easier to deal with imo compared to ostheer sniper. I have managed to kill Tigers with the stun shot since there's no real way of fighting without your turret turning

Snipers are a extremely strong tool in the right hands, risky to make if you don't have the skill to micro, but if you do it's gonna reek havoc

There is a easier much more cost effective way to fight obers IMHO, that is Maxim. Maxim is allot harder to kill, it suppresses and is cheaper, the level of micro and baby-sitting required is smaller as well.

Snipers getting 100+ kills? Never seen that happen, in more then 400 hours of gameplay. Don't get me wrong i'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that it didn't happen to you, but it is certainly a rarity.


British snipers is pretty good but mainly cause it can double as a light vehicle harasser early on and later can aid in the destruction or cockblocking of axis armoured rampage. But in of itself is a significant investment that is reducing your field presence.


I guess i should have prefaced this is from the point of view of 2v2 and up. I believe that is the source of our disagreement.


But even in 1v1 i still find them not to be all that amazing, since factions like US and OKW seem to do rather well without them.

Hello.

Massing snipers is a valid tactic in 3v3 4v4 as you abandon your field presence to give one of your ally a powerful (but fragile) support force. very map dependant and tend to be countered by the mortars that flourish during thoses games.

In 1v1 an unanswerd sniper bleed a guy every 6 second.
His role is to force one of the four folowing answers:
- The ennemy move forward with 2+ squads and hope for some lucky bullets to end the sniper's life. Knowing this you can position to welcome his vengeful charge.
- The ennemy build a mortar or two and hope for some lucky shot. A mortar is of more debatable use in 1v1 against someone that does not use teamweapon. If you are mobile he made a unit that will not help him.
- The ennemy unleash the wrath of a sniper-hunter specialised unit in the form of a kubel/Halftrack/M20 that do get a bonus for shooting at a sniper. Once again if you can predict such a behaviour you can quickly score a vehicle kill in your favor.
- The ennemy will hide behind a building or retreat a little and gather all his forces, forcing the sniper either to put himself into a dangerous zone or beeing an expensive spotter with nothing to shoot at. Then, with all the ennemy forces at the same spot, the sniper is far less effective and protected. Things will then move to answer 1.

The best snipers are not lonewolfs.

Kozo.

Ps :If this is a british sniper, just hide into a building oh wait. was it fixed?

It wasn't fixed, maybe it is a feature? kappa

Specifically in 2v2 and up is were i see them being least effective. Specially if that strat is being used by an allied team.

Should have said in the title this is from team game perspective.


But here is some food for thought. If he spent money on a sniper or two, that is guaranteed lack of field presence. Spread out and cap then bring a early scouting light vehicle to put the pressure on him. This will force him to invest in AT units which are, once again, detracting from is field presence.

Snip

Lol, easy. Rush said sniper with whatever squad you have and it's GG

boar hit the nail on the head... snipers provide a huge boost at the cost of field presence. they can work at all levels, but their role changes as the number of players goes up. in 3s and 4s they tend to get forced to retreat more, so they're less of a manpower bleed tool than support against support weapons and blobbing. the OH sniper is particularly nice once it gets the incendiary round.

i have a buddy who would routinely use 2-3 snipers in 2v2s and was insanely good at managing it... but he had very good micro. i disagree with OP... i don't think you can just ignore the snipers, but you definitely have to work around them. they can't move quickly without exposing themselves, so you attack in other places to minimize their bleed.

boar hit the nail on the head... snipers provide a huge boost at the cost of field presence. they can work at all levels, but their role changes as the number of players goes up. in 3s and 4s they tend to get forced to retreat more, so they're less of a manpower bleed tool than support against support weapons and blobbing. the OH sniper is particularly nice once it gets the incendiary round.

i have a buddy who would routinely use 2-3 snipers in 2v2s and was insanely good at managing it... but he had very good micro. i disagree with OP... i don't think you can just ignore the snipers, but you definitely have to work around them. they can't move quickly without exposing themselves, so you attack in other places to minimize their bleed.

"Snipers getting 100+ kills? Never seen that happen, in more then 400 hours of gameplay."



50+ kills for each sniper

Just ignore the sniper sounds great until the enemy just camp your cutoff

Every Sniper Unit costs 360 Manpower and signifcantly decreases your map presence for a certain amount of time. The best way to go if you do not have a Counter Sniper available is to hide behind shot blockers in order to avoid bleeding (Only show yourself to avoid a cutoff!) which will also diminish Sniper's effectiveness: By hiding your units you will ensure that the hostile Sniper is not worth his purchase. Rush for light vehicles and flank from multiple sides to overtax your opponent's mind and try to eliminate the Sniper. In case you are successful you will have Manpower advantage for a decent amount of time which you have to exploit further by pushing aggressively to broaden your advantage on every ressource type and Victory Point wise.

Ostheer snipers 1 vet is absolutely devastating. If you will do nothing you will loose all infantry.

Ostheer snipers 1 vet is absolutely devastating. If you will do nothing you will loose all infantry.

Maybe in 1v1. 2v2 and up, their value decreases significantly.

Maybe in 1v1. 2v2 and up, their value decreases significantly.

Most time i play 3x3 or 4x4.

Every Sniper Unit costs 360 Manpower and signifcantly decreases your map presence for a certain amount of time. The best way to go if you do not have a Counter Sniper available is to hide behind shot blockers in order to avoid bleeding (Only show yourself to avoid a cutoff!) which will also diminish Sniper's effectiveness: By hiding your units you will ensure that the hostile Sniper is not worth his purchase. Rush for light vehicles and flank from multiple sides to overtax your opponent's mind and try to eliminate the Sniper. In case you are successful you will have Manpower advantage for a decent amount of time which you have to exploit further by pushing aggressively to broaden your advantage on every ressource type and Victory Point wise.

Thoughts on ostheer sniper? I feel their RoF is a tad too high especially when grens can screen and faust a vehicle dive and the 222 comes a few minutes after which is in general a bit too good for its cost also.

Thoughts on ostheer sniper? I feel their RoF is a tad too high especially when grens can screen and faust a vehicle dive and the 222 comes a few minutes after which is in general a bit too good for its cost also.

Both Soviets and Brits can try to countersnipe or rush him with AEC/T70.

USF on the other hand will have a hard time...on some maps you can assassinate him with a quick M20-rush and smoke away from a 222. Maps like Langreskaya proved to be harsher and I am still trying out what works best here (talking about 1vs1).

As Brits I have trouble coping with snipers psychologically. I'm the person OP is talking about. I panic and get frustrated when I can't kill it and it starts taking out slow moving support weapons. I'm not a top tier player by any means but even at my level, most OH players I'm pitted against are quite good at supporting them so you can't really YOLO a bren carrier to get the kill most of the time. And countersnipes can be difficult.