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Riflemen Vet breaks balance (with comparisons)

16 Nov 2015, 23:49 PM
#81
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

So what do you guys suggest then? Scaling back Riflemen's current buffs will leave us with the same problem as before. Riflemen need some sort of adjustment where the USF player is not floating fuel while lacking man power late game.



Give usf a lategame HQ upgarde which reduces upkeep of riflesquads or reinforcement costs.Mp bleed solved.No need for terminator bonuses.
16 Nov 2015, 23:55 PM
#82
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

Riflemen are just op at vet 3, im sucked off by these vet3 no skill smoke blobs :(
17 Nov 2015, 00:03 AM
#83
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Riflemen are just op at vet 3, im sucked off by these vet3 no skill smoke blobs :(

I'm not seeing the problem here for you.
17 Nov 2015, 00:20 AM
#85
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Guys officers should buff riflemen into lategame

17 Nov 2015, 00:27 AM
#86
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Guys officers should buff riflemen into lategame


Technically Captain's already got something for that.
17 Nov 2015, 00:29 AM
#87
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Nov 2015, 00:03 AMVuther

I'm not seeing the problem here for you.


Vet3 + smoke is like losing eevry engagement because you are not able to kill or stop them
17 Nov 2015, 01:07 AM
#88
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Nov 2015, 00:27 AMVuther

Technically Captain's already got something for that.


Aura
17 Nov 2015, 01:09 AM
#89
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

So what do you guys suggest then? Scaling back Riflemen's current buffs will leave us with the same problem as before. Riflemen need some sort of adjustment where the USF player is not floating fuel while lacking man power late game.


a wise coh2 guru named DEVM said something like this about Ostheer:

"[paraphrased] the thing with Ostheer is that they rely on Grenadiers throughout the entire game. So when grens are overbuffed, the entire faction gets OP".

this is the thing with USF rifleman and even okw volks.

although rifleman have BARs but it isn't global so doesnt have too much of an effect.

so things are very delicate here. how much nerf does the rifleman deserve? the fate of my favourite faction depends on this and i have no clue.
17 Nov 2015, 01:11 AM
#90
avatar of Vuther
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Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



Vet3 + smoke is like losing eevry engagement because you are not able to kill or stop them

I was more trying to highlight the "sucking off" part.


Aura

But auras succcccckkkkkkkk :-<

And not in a good "sucking off" way, just to be clear.
17 Nov 2015, 01:13 AM
#91
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160

The reason rifle's got that buff was because they have no non-doctrinal elite infantry. The same applies to tommies. Ost can get grens and pgrens by default and OKW gets volks, sturms and obers.

If your response to this is, pgren,sturms,obers suck, then the solution is to buff them.
17 Nov 2015, 01:19 AM
#92
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160

Guys officers should buff riflemen into lategame




That's actually a pretty good idea. And kind of makes sense. It would also make LTs not crappier riflemen.
17 Nov 2015, 01:20 AM
#93
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Togglable auras for different commands

Hunker down RA buff, focus fire accuracy buff, group sprint, etc.

Tie aura effectiveness to officer vet, make riflemen vet only effect moving accuracy, sight range, abilities, and at vet 3, 3 rack weapons option.

Buff Bar so it's not crap, slightly buff zook damage. Increase cost of racks to 25 fuel
17 Nov 2015, 01:29 AM
#94
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Nov 2015, 01:13 AMZeaviS
The reason rifle's got that buff was because they have no non-doctrinal elite infantry. The same applies to tommies. Ost can get grens and pgrens by default and OKW gets volks, sturms and obers.

If your response to this is, pgren,sturms,obers suck, then the solution is to buff them.


Soviet is the only faction that actually needed elite infantry. Trying to create an artificial need for elite infantry by making them overpowered is backward.

Guys officers should buff riflemen into lategame



after having suffered through coh1 with its british super blob, I am going to definitely say NO.

US officers are already competent combat unit you get for free. They don't need to be more powerful.
17 Nov 2015, 01:37 AM
#95
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Togglable auras for different commands

Hunker down RA buff, focus fire accuracy buff, group sprint, etc.

Tie aura effectiveness to officer vet, make riflemen vet only effect moving accuracy, sight range, abilities, and at vet 3, 3 rack weapons option.

Buff Bar so it's not crap, slightly buff zook damage. Increase cost of racks to 25 fuel

Eh, I think BARs'll be just fine after Rifle vet 3 is made balanced (which is to imply not straight up remove it, just nerf it some more).

But damn if that kinda concept doesn't sound potent to me. Give those toggled auras meaningful cooldowns and ranges, could be what the CoH1 Brit officers shoulda been. Probably would be tough to get just right, granted...auras are toughies, mang.
17 Nov 2015, 01:37 AM
#96
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

^ I think elite infantry is more of a playstyle/build thing than anything.

On blobs, yeah I kind of agree but as long as USF is riflemen OP, USF will be OP. If that makes sense.
17 Nov 2015, 01:45 AM
#97
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160



Soviet is the only faction that actually needed elite infantry. Trying to create an artificial need for elite infantry by making them overpowered is backward.

I didn't mention cons in my post. I actually don't think buffing cons was necessary. I would have rather penals gotten that buff instead. Cons were fine before.


after having suffered through coh1 with its british super blob, I am going to definitely say NO.


US officers are already competent combat unit you get for free. They don't need to be more powerful.


Valid point.
17 Nov 2015, 02:02 AM
#98
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1

As an interesting aside, the two scoped Lee Enfields also count towards weapon slot limit or something, but they cannot be dropped themselves, so they cause Vet3 tommies to start dropping other weapons sooner than otherwise. I had a 5-man vet3 tommy squad drop Brens when down to 3 men, and I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the scoped Lee-Enfields also have a stats downside somehow, like they are not affected by some modifier or another (cover, garrison, command aura, not sure tbh) but I don't remember the details. Does this ring a bell for anyone or am I becoming senile?
17 Nov 2015, 02:07 AM
#99
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

As an interesting aside, the two scoped Lee Enfields also count towards weapon slot limit or something, but they cannot be dropped themselves, so they cause Vet3 tommies to start dropping other weapons sooner than otherwise. I had a 5-man vet3 tommy squad drop Brens when down to 3 men, and I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the scoped Lee-Enfields also have a stats downside somehow, like they are not affected by some modifier or another (cover, garrison, command aura, not sure tbh) but I don't remember the details. Does this ring a bell for anyone or am I becoming senile?

I couldn't tell ya, I just learned today they're actually different weapons in practice and not just a fancy skin.
17 Nov 2015, 02:24 AM
#100
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

As an interesting aside, the two scoped Lee Enfields also count towards weapon slot limit or something, but they cannot be dropped themselves, so they cause Vet3 tommies to start dropping other weapons sooner than otherwise. I had a 5-man vet3 tommy squad drop Brens when down to 3 men, and I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the scoped Lee-Enfields also have a stats downside somehow, like they are not affected by some modifier or another (cover, garrison, command aura, not sure tbh) but I don't remember the details. Does this ring a bell for anyone or am I becoming senile?


the scoped lee enfield being inferior was a bug fixed a long time ago. Now they are a straight up upgrade from the normal lee enfield.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=0
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