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SU-76 issues

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3 Aug 2015, 17:42 PM
#101
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21



Man, I have faced 3+ SU-76 and they wrecked all armor and support weapons. The guy I faced had spot on micro tho.

Well what I can recommend vs 3+ SU-76 is if OKW cloak raketens and slowly push up to snipe the SU-76s one by one with volk shrek blob or Puma/Panther to support.
If Pr0stheer, triple paks + lmg gren blob + whatever armor you have to rekt all dem Su-76s :foreveralone:

Heck even a pak43 wouldn't be a bad idea. :foreveralone:

If he's barraging move in with armor to hit him while he's not firing AP rounds. :foreveralone:
3 Aug 2015, 20:38 PM
#102
avatar of Soheil

Posts: 658

this damage ! this range !free barrage (omg) and almost cheap or free to spam it, hehe comes from t3 GL. remember when u see 2or3 su76 absoloutly some maxim and infantry around it,cant easily close it with cloak raketn and shrecks.:spam:
3 Aug 2015, 22:42 PM
#103
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

I'm going to try to reply to multiple posts in the one post so bear with me.

Aralepus: If we're going to go the historical/realistic route when it comes to penetration its worth noting that there is no side armor in the game, and the SU76 could reliably penetrate side and rear armor. If it shouldn't penetrate front armor of these tanks how should this be compensated in terms of game mechanics? =)

Even though I feel the whole realism argument is null and void for this game.


Well, the game mechanics aren't like, say World of tanks and War thunder where if your gun isn't good enough, you have a 0% chance of pennetrating. Its what a guy said earlier, it will have a certain percentage chance of penning. If an SU-76 has a 10-20% chance of pennetrating heavy armour (compensating for side armour), and an 80-100% chance of pennetrating P4s, I'd be happy with that.

Yes, in most cases gameplay > realism I agree, but there's a certain limit as to how far you can drift from realism. Believe me, when 37-50mm guns start pennetrating Shermans, I'd be annoyed too. Otherwise, it'll be Company of Placeholders, not Company of Heroes.

VonIvan: If you think the SU-76 is OP, try spamming shreks and AT-guns with a little puma or Panther support. I hear it works wonders. :foreveralone:


ALL HAIL VON IVAN kappa. Well yeah... but you'd be leaving yourself very vulnerable to AI. :P Thats a lot of manpower investment into AT haha.


Wingzero: If we were to reduce the penetration, SU-76 will be a underused unit again and we don't want that. The only thing we need to do is increase it's cost and that is it. The biggest problem facing SU-76 is the blob factor.


Er, no it won't. Assuming the SU-76 can still deal with medium tanks adequately after the nerf, for a tank that comes at the time it does, it'll still have unparallelled AI and AT.
4 Aug 2015, 07:49 AM
#104
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7


Well what I can recommend vs 3+ SU-76 is if OKW cloak raketens and slowly push up to snipe the SU-76s one by one with volk shrek blob or Puma/Panther to support.
If Pr0stheer, triple paks + lmg gren blob + whatever armor you have to rekt all dem Su-76s :foreveralone:

Heck even a pak43 wouldn't be a bad idea. :foreveralone:

If he's barraging move in with armor to hit him while he's not firing AP rounds. :foreveralone:



I dont want 3 paks when there are shocks/guards and cons and maxims on the field because it badly hurt my field presence.

Blob < free barrage

And also i dont think flanking is viaable agains competent player becuase russia tend to spam mines everywhere (and everywhere mean also on flanks)

An if i hit mine tank = death scrub of metal


But agains not best/ great players this can work fairly well

Also stug with TWP does wonders
4 Aug 2015, 16:41 PM
#105
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Aug 2015, 22:42 PMhubewa

Er, no it won't. Assuming the SU-76 can still deal with medium tanks adequately after the nerf, for a tank that comes at the time it does, it'll still have unparallelled AI and AT.


One Su-76 is not a problem at all, when they are bunched in a group they are deadly. Increasing the price will allow the player to field limited numbers of them. As of now, 3 SU-76 is a better option than building T-34/76s.
4 Aug 2015, 17:00 PM
#106
avatar of RetroInferno

Posts: 59

If anything the barrage ability shouldn't be free of munition cost.

Nice to see it used a lot more but it's too cheap for the option it has.
4 Aug 2015, 17:30 PM
#107
avatar of Nabarxos

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jul 2015, 03:36 AMhubewa
Been playing a bit of OKW of late and since SU-76 was moved to T3, it has been spammed a lot.

I get prior to July 21st SU-76s were very underplayed and it may be able to work at tier 3, but I'm not complaining about that. (Definitely strong for Soviets)

I'm complaining about the ridiculous Penn the SU-76 has. When I try to send a Panther against SU-76 packs, they seem to cut through the armour like butter.

I just find it ridiculous that a low velocity 76mm she'll can go through a Panther frontally.

Any thoughts on this? I'd like to see how you Axis players handle SU-76s

you may find funny that alot of 76mm guns penetrating a panther but i also find funny that units with bigger guns(on the allied side)performe worse then they should(is-2 122mm gun cant penetrate relianly the panther).

Apart from that the su-76 has ALOT of weakness like low health,low armor,low damage,awful AI(the barrage is unreliable at long range and at close range is very vulnerable to enemy AT),low range.its in a very good spot and doesnt need ANY price increase or nerfs to its penetration and it should be common sense NOT TO CHARGE a lone panther or any tank against a wall of tank destoyers.

If you still think the tanks needs nerfs then i would suggest you play ATLEAST 40 games as soviets and get a taste of its performens from their perspective and tell us about your expiriance.
4 Aug 2015, 17:36 PM
#108
avatar of ElTirador

Posts: 27

The only problem about SU-76 is when RNG isnt at your side and whippes your Pak40 with the barrage, for the rest, isnt SU-76 too strong, SU-85 is too weak.
4 Aug 2015, 18:10 PM
#109
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928


you may find funny that alot of 76mm guns penetrating a panther but i also find funny that units with bigger guns(on the allied side)performe worse then they should(is-2 122mm gun cant penetrate relianly the panther).

Apart from that the su-76 has ALOT of weakness like low health,low armor,low damage,awful AI(the barrage is unreliable at long range and at close range is very vulnerable to enemy AT),low range.its in a very good spot and doesnt need ANY price increase or nerfs to its penetration and it should be common sense NOT TO CHARGE a lone panther or any tank against a wall of tank destoyers.

If you still think the tanks needs nerfs then i would suggest you play ATLEAST 40 games as soviets and get a taste of its performens from their perspective and tell us about your expiriance.


Don't ppl ever look at stats if they're provided?

Common sense also tells me that 76mm guns shouldn't reliably Penn Panthers from the front, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to fit 85mm guns on tanks and TDs kn 1944/1945.

When I play Soviets, if I'm encountering Gean heavy armour, I try to do something called flanking and hitting it with combined arms/multiple directions/weight of numbers. If I'm really dealing with lots of heavy armour, I start building SU-85s.

Oh and maybe one shot with barrage may not be a problem but when you find 2-3 SU-76s barraging the same spot (common on 1v1 with smaller maps) it tends to squad wipe reliably, nothing wrong with barrage, its annoying but I'm prepared to live with that.

If the 122mm on the is performs as badly as you say, it should be fixed, but I find 85mm guns perform really well for sovs.
4 Aug 2015, 18:14 PM
#110
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928



One Su-76 is not a problem at all, when they are bunched in a group they are deadly. Increasing the price will allow the player to field limited numbers of them. As of now, 3 SU-76 is a better option than building T-34/76s.


You're proving my point that they're overused. If Penn was nipped back a bit to what I'm looking for, I'd still build one or 2 in a game to counter P4s and barrage positions before attacking.
4 Aug 2015, 18:43 PM
#111
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 18:10 PMhubewa


Don't ppl ever look at stats if they're provided?

Common sense also tells me that 76mm guns shouldn't reliably Penn Panthers from the front, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to fit 85mm guns on tanks and TDs kn 1944/1945.

When I play Soviets, if I'm encountering Gean heavy armour, I try to do something called flanking and hitting it with combined arms/multiple directions/weight of numbers. If I'm really dealing with lots of heavy armour, I start building SU-85s.

Realism ends where balance starts.
Puma taking 2 IS-2 shots and shrugging it off?
50mm cannon penetrating T34?
It goes both ways you see.

Also, ZiS-3 76mm gun =! T34 F-34 76mm gun, two completely different guns. People confuse the two just because both are 76mm.

Oh and maybe one shot with barrage may not be a problem but when you find 2-3 SU-76s barraging the same spot (common on 1v1 with smaller maps) it tends to squad wipe reliably, nothing wrong with barrage, its annoying but I'm prepared to live with that.

Any barrage weapon when used in numbers on one area will bring some pain.
SU-76 isn't exception here, even three pwerfers will wreck havoc when barraging same area at the same time, but that isn't a reason to nerf pwerfer, right?(not addressing this directly to you, but to the crowd of fanboys butthurt about the barrage)
4 Aug 2015, 20:42 PM
#112
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

Like I said, Barrage is not a problem. I am perfectly fine with Barrage in the game. I'm just pointing out the unparalled AI it has when it arrives which I'm fine with, just the AT is a bit ridiculous for when it arrives and the numbers it can be fielded in.

Id nerf the Puma too, it does have the mobility to get around T-34s.... So I don't see why it has that much Penn. Even then, as it shouldn't, it doesn't get through heavy armour.

Puma taking 2 IS-2 shots - yeah that's called hitpoints which isn't realistic but as both of us are CoH2 players, we're willing to shrug it off.

Also after doing some research, yes, even the ZIS-3 can't deal with Panthers and Tigers from the front and has trouble.



4 Aug 2015, 21:37 PM
#113
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

My point at the end of the day is there is no gun in the world that has excellent AI and AT performance, especially in WW2. The higher the AT performance, the worse the AI performance. You can't fit a lot of High Explosive in a high velocity round.

The same goes for low velocity rounds. You can fit a lot more HE but its a lot worse at pennetration.

At the moment, if we ignore accuracy, the SU-76 has the best of both worlds. It has excellent AT and excellent AI when it comes to the gun. For the time that it arrives in the game and considering reality, this is my main issue.

If I had any say, I'd make the SU-76 a jack of all trades master of mine. Make it a decent TD able to deal with Pz 4s, and improve the barrage ability to improve accuracy, but make it so it can't deal with German heavy armour from the front.
4 Aug 2015, 22:28 PM
#114
avatar of Bastables

Posts: 20

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 21:37 PMhubewa
My point at the end of the day is there is no gun in the world that has excellent AI and AT performance, especially in WW2. The higher the AT performance, the worse the AI performance. You can't fit a lot of High Explosive in a high velocity round.



Which is why the HE rounds should be designed to have a less powerful cartridge when fired out of the same gun, and a HE warhead designed to hold more HE filler as opposed to a ap shell.

Note that the Kwk40 on the PIV had Pzgr 39 at 750m/s while the HE round spgr had a initial muzzle velocity of 550m/s.
5 Aug 2015, 03:33 AM
#115
avatar of Flying Dustbin

Posts: 270 | Subs: 1

SU-76s are very good now, I agree.
Mix in an M5 quadmount and nothing can beat you early game until axis bring out the big guns.
Although by that time you should be on to your high end call ins and equivalent big guns.

And if you have 2 or more SU-76s you can just barrage infantry with one and smack down vehicles with the other when the enemy tries to mount a combined attack.
I can't think of much ways to 'nerf' the thing without making the barrage a vet ability, seeing as it is free unlike the ZiS-3.
5 Aug 2015, 07:13 AM
#116
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 21:37 PMhubewa
My point at the end of the day is there is no gun in the world that has excellent AI and AT performance, especially in WW2. The higher the AT performance, the worse the AI performance. You can't fit a lot of High Explosive in a high velocity round.

you don't need a high velocity round for anti-tank work if your shell is heavy enough. This is why the soviet gun have comically large caliber. Their gun design went for increasingly heavy shell instead of higher velocity.
5 Aug 2015, 09:06 AM
#117
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928


you don't need a high velocity round for anti-tank work if your shell is heavy enough. This is why the soviet gun have comically large caliber. Their gun design went for increasingly heavy shell instead of higher velocity.


True, but I wouldn't call 76mm High caliber, especially considering what the soviets went for.

The trouble with heavy shells is that they take forever for crews to load and gun is nowhere near as accurate. So although, if it hits an enemy tank, it will kill it, it can't fight multiple tanks.
5 Aug 2015, 10:33 AM
#118
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 830

Still don't see why people dislike it. The unit is finally useful again, t34-76 is still utter shit against anything but infantry, so yes it out-ranges you, but is has no turret, so flank it and its dead.

It penning a KT frontally, well anything in this game can pen a king tiger frontally :foreveralone:.The only thing the KT has going for it, is its large health pool and good gun.
5 Aug 2015, 14:57 PM
#119
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

With the buff in SU's AT power, I think KT's front armour should be returned to its old value. Currently, PzIV + Jpz is just plain better than KT/Panther.
5 Aug 2015, 15:01 PM
#120
avatar of SturmTigerWalter

Posts: 2

vet 3 Su76 and you can just write GG ....
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