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russian armor

Pak 43 vs Offmap

6 Jun 2015, 10:59 AM
#1
avatar of Chiro
Donator 11

Posts: 89

Hello
The pak 43 would be a good counter vs IS2 and ISU but :
IS2 commander can clear it out with incendiary strike.
ISU one-hit the pak with IL2 precision strike.

no double standards:
Soviet arty emplacements are hardcounterd with 50kg bomb.


I can see why the arty is destroyed by 1 50 kg bomb:
It's far behind enemy lines and in games with more then 2 player getting to that arty is often not possible.

The pak with it's magic ghost shells must be placed somewhere at the front but can be placed behind shot-blocker.
But regular indirect fire like mortar and arty can get in range to kill it.

First:
Should the pak get more health to survive an IL2 precision strike OR should the IL deal less damage?
Normally i would say no but the synergy with is ISU makes this commander extremely potent.

Second:
Should OKW emplacements (Pak 43 and Flak) be immune against de-crewing?
This would call for a price increase it think.


If any emplacement/ability should be changed, it's cost might need adjustment as well.
6 Jun 2015, 11:48 AM
#2
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 324

i think the pak43 is a stop-gap unit until heavier stuff can be feilded. A strat around pak43 with t3 play, its never going to work EVER.

Nearly every allied commander has abilities to 1 shot pak43s. 120s ofc with precision strike. Even non-doctrinal stuff can deal with them easily. you are better off spending that same manpower on 2 regular paks.

the best way to fix them, i think, is to first remove their vet, give them back their 100 range and lower thier weopan damage from 320 to 240 (or even 160 with a high rate of fire).
6 Jun 2015, 12:26 PM
#3
avatar of Squeaky Door 96

Posts: 192

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jun 2015, 11:48 AMSmaug
i think the pak43 is a stop-gap unit until heavier stuff can be feilded. A strat around pak43 with t3 play, its never going to work EVER.

Nearly every allied commander has abilities to 1 shot pak43s. 120s ofc with precision strike. Even non-doctrinal stuff can deal with them easily. you are better off spending that same manpower on 2 regular paks.

the best way to fix them, i think, is to first remove their vet, give them back their 100 range and lower thier weopan damage from 320 to 240 (or even 160 with a high rate of fire).


160 damage? why bother even getting it then? Just get pak 40 or rakettenwerfer lol
6 Jun 2015, 13:05 PM
#4
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 324



160 damage? why bother even getting it then? Just get pak 40 or rakettenwerfer lol

100 range, massive penetration, shooting through buildings and high rate of fire.
6 Jun 2015, 13:07 PM
#5
avatar of Stafkeh
Patrion 14

Posts: 1006

In my opinion, commanders with heavy tank call ins shouldn't have commander abilities to destroy/wipe out AT emplacements/crews.
6 Jun 2015, 13:15 PM
#6
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 906

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jun 2015, 11:48 AMSmaug
the best way to fix them, i think, is to first remove their vet, give them back their 100 range and lower thier weopan damage from 320 to 240 (or even 160 with a high rate of fire).
That´s actually a pretty good solution.

Two shooting Medium tanks atm is too much. On the other side the Pak43 can´t do that much with only 80 range. I don´t even know why they reduced it in the first place (alongside the ISU/ Elefant range nerf). The Pak43 never was a problem.

Atm the Pak43 offers nothing the Elefant or even Tigers can´t do better. Result: The usual dull call in meta.
6 Jun 2015, 15:19 PM
#7
avatar of Squeaky Door 96

Posts: 192

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jun 2015, 13:05 PMSmaug

100 range, massive penetration, shooting through buildings and high rate of fire.


it stills shoots through buildings? Man than I understand the points yeah
6 Jun 2015, 15:40 PM
#8
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 324

infact these changes to pak43 will prompt another layer of strategy for whermacht, where they can tech medium tanks without worrying to save feul to call in heavies to combat heavies.
As for the allies it will be good stationary arty target, so everyone wins here i think.

similarly allied medium tanks need +80 health buff through vet2 so that they dont get 4 shotted by axis heavies.
6 Jun 2015, 18:59 PM
#9
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
100 range pak43....

NO
6 Jun 2015, 19:35 PM
#10
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2297 | Subs: 1

The Pak43 really is a reactive choice. It's useful for when you have identified your opponents doctrine and know he does not have a bomb strike that can easily take down a Pak43. For instance, partisan tactics, Airborne, Armored Assault, Guards rifle combined arms etc.
6 Jun 2015, 19:49 PM
#11
avatar of BrutusHR

Posts: 243

The Pak43 really is a reactive choice. It's useful for when you have identified your opponents doctrine and know he does not have a bomb strike that can easily take down a Pak43. For instance, partisan tactics, Airborne, Armored Assault, Guards rifle combined arms etc.


What if he/ builds a katyusha?
6 Jun 2015, 20:10 PM
#12
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

You cant expect too much from 500 mp...

At any rate, flame barrage means pak is decrewed... Ill say NDA in the novelty of being decrewed. And the munitions to one shot it with an offmap is either more or similar to its mp cost, so... (In terms of the time it takes to obtain the resources to build/use both)
6 Jun 2015, 20:13 PM
#13
avatar of Bob Loblaw

Posts: 156

The Pak 43 is fine. By the time the enemy spots it they usually lose an important tank to it meaning the Pak 43 just paid for itself. I don't want the game to turn into advanced camping simulator with all of the stationary guns and arty. Maybe there will be a mod for that one day.
6 Jun 2015, 20:14 PM
#14
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1651

Just need to find the opponent without the offmap. Pak 43 is fine
6 Jun 2015, 20:34 PM
#15
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 906

100 range pak43....

NO
Why not? It used to be 100 range before. Back then nobody complained about it. It´s static, an easy target for artillery and blocks the possibility to field heavy tanks for the Ostheer player.

Post an argument instead of just "NO". Seems more to me that you just block off any suggestion for an Axis buff as a matter of principle.
6 Jun 2015, 22:41 PM
#16
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1226

Kappa Kappa and Kappa
6 Jun 2015, 22:52 PM
#17
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Add fuel costs too it and you can buff it. For its price it is performing ok.
6 Jun 2015, 23:40 PM
#18
avatar of Appleseed

Posts: 622

The Pak 43 is fine. By the time the enemy spots it they usually lose an important tank to it meaning the Pak 43 just paid for itself. I don't want the game to turn into advanced camping simulator with all of the stationary guns and arty. Maybe there will be a mod for that one day.


The problem I have with Pak 43 is when i build it near the mid engagment area behind building etc. if there is enemy infantry within the range, the sec i finish building my pak 43 it shoot off its first shot at the stupid infantry and give away it position, then it got airstrike, precision strike, rockets fire at it and MP is wasted. Right now i am forced every time build my pack 43 facing my base direction, so that i can toggle it attack vehicle only which is pretty stupid it should auto ignore infantry
7 Jun 2015, 00:29 AM
#19
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
Why not? It used to be 100 range before. Back then nobody complained about it. It´s static, an easy target for artillery and blocks the possibility to field heavy tanks for the Ostheer player.

Post an argument instead of just "NO". Seems more to me that you just block off any suggestion for an Axis buff as a matter of principle.


it would make usf vehicle play impossible. pak walls already fuck them up, so a 100 range pak would render usf un-playable cus it would be the perfect counter since usf lacks good early game indirect fire.

not to mention how bullshit an IR HT and 100 range pak would be. "NO" was all that needed to be said.
7 Jun 2015, 00:49 AM
#20
avatar of momo4sho
Senior Caster Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 463 | Subs: 1

Queen making sense? DansGame.

But seriously pak is fine where its at.
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