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The T 34 problem

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NanoNaps
9 Jun 2013, 10:24 AM
#101
avatar of NanoNaps

Posts: 73

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jun 2013, 10:08 AMStrummingbird


I fight german heavy armor quite fine without ram. SWK into the soviet T4 building. Held off multiple ostwinds, a p4, stug, and Panther in total after losing the map early on. Destroyed them with SU-85 + AT grenades + an AT gun. Shock troops + KV-8 + MG + Mortar cleaned everything else, ended up winning the 1v1 on Kholodony.

Not a german-only player though.


Yes, i know it is possible without ram.
But you have to outplay the german player.
While the german players don't want to do the same to stop ram.
That's my point here.

I am of the opinion that the matchup is quite balanced atm. But the german players here want to nerf ram for some reason
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talarfon
9 Jun 2013, 10:27 AM
#102
avatar of talarfon

Posts: 74

Personally I've had no problem not using ram.

but IMO its a lame mechanic and isn't used in the way it should be.

I've played both factions and won all but 3 of around 40-50 games since closed beta. Only used ram once... right at the start of the game.

It's not the only way to deal with armor like some people seem to think.

By the way I'm talking 1v1's strictly here, ram balance in 2v2's is a whole different issue because axis T4 is very common there with 2-3 heavy tanks being produced they can pretty much run over any AT line so ram becomes more essential then.
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198004874659
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NanoNaps
9 Jun 2013, 10:32 AM
#103
avatar of NanoNaps

Posts: 73

It kinda should be clear it is not about 1v1 here.

If anyone would cry about ram in a 1v1 i would laugh because russian will most likely cripple himself by doing it and german armor is not that much of an issue there.

But you can't just remove/nerf it because 1v1 is balanced, you have to keep the multiplayer part in mind.
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Strummingbird
9 Jun 2013, 10:33 AM
#104
avatar of Strummingbird
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Posts: 952

But you see, soviet players find it annoying that the T-34 has rubbish penetration and armor, and german players find it annoying ram allows t-34s in multiple to counter any armor. Why not find a compromise- up other stats at the cost of ram? That's what the beta is for anyway.

At the same time, I find the cooldown for ram incredibly low. It's as if the devs didn't intend for a ram to be dodged at all. I blitzkrieg'd a Panther backwards just in time in prediction to a ram incoming, and got away nicely, with the T-34 running out of ram-time before hitting. A second or two later, ram was activated again on the same T-34 and de-clawed my panther before Blitzkrieg had recharged.

I imagine smoke would break the line of sight required to ram even as the T-34 charges as well- haven't tried that- but given the very low cooldown for ram it seems like ram wasn't intended to be dodged proper.
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hubewa
9 Jun 2013, 10:36 AM
#105
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jun 2013, 09:39 AMNullist
NanoNaps, your bias is showing quite clearly.


Pretty LOL Considering it's beta and we've only got a month to play the game....
Had fun doing this earlier
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NanoNaps
9 Jun 2013, 10:37 AM
#106
avatar of NanoNaps

Posts: 73

Yes, that's what i said from start . If ram would be removed, other things need to be upped (or downed from german armor).

i agree on the cooldown part though.... missing ram should be punished.
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hubewa
9 Jun 2013, 10:53 AM
#107
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jun 2013, 07:58 AMLachlanMann
Ram is broken. I don't understand how people can even be defending it.

"No AT blah blah" Go to T2 and build a Zis. At the stage it's in now, you don't even have to build anything from T2. Just build the T2 building, Go to T3, and spam T-34. Oh, a Panzer 4? Ram the shit out of it.

You literally do not have to build anything other than Conscripts, Snipers, Guard's and T34's, and you can counter everything.

It's broken, and it needs fixing ASAP. And while they're at it, could they make the scout car useful? And why not give Pgrens the option for MP44's? If COnscripts can get PSK's, Germans should have an option for MP44's


Read what I posted.

That is exactly what I mean by the general "MAKE MY DEUSTCHE STAHL MORE OP" feel that this thread has.

Have, you ever tried using the ZIS? You'll probably realise that when you use it, you'll do too little damage and by then, it will get decrewed and killed. And I'm not talking about penetration either.

I play both Germans and Soviets btw. And I did get a laugh from your last paragraph btw... PGrens already mince Cons already, even with the PPSH upgrade. Hit the dirt? Okay, take that bundle nade then! And the scout car is already useful. There are plenty of things on the Russian side that are less useful than the scout car by the time it comes out anyway...
Had fun doing this earlier
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Hygualanga
9 Jun 2013, 13:16 PM
#108
avatar of Hygualanga

Posts: 28

One of my elefant lost his main gun after being rammed from behind by a T34, this should be fixed I think.
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Hissy
9 Jun 2013, 15:40 PM
#109
avatar of Hissy

Posts: 176

In 20 games of using T34-85's and their normal counterparts i have yet to encounter a case were i haven't disabled main gun and engine. I've never immobilized them but SU-85 will kill anything that has been rammed.
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CombatMuffin
9 Jun 2013, 17:28 PM
#110
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642

Perhaps, maybe, ram is such an easily available ability, from a very inexpensive unit, that it is just better to use it than actually perform combined arms with the Soviets.

Yes, the Axis have an advantage in the armored play (they have better tanks, period.) but so far, the Soviets have a much, much stronger early game if the soviet knows what he is doing. Add hit the dirt, and you have superior infantry, all around (Rifle grenades work wonders, but I've seen a blob hit the dirt and withstand an off map artillery barrage from jaeger infantry).

You have the tools, as a soviet, to decide early on which part you want to deny the Axis player. Deny him the fuel.
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hubewa
9 Jun 2013, 23:45 PM
#111
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jun 2013, 17:28 PMCombatMuffin
You have the tools, as a soviet, to decide early on which part you want to deny the Axis player. Deny him the fuel.


This would be much easier in COH1. The problem with this here is that strat points give you fuel. So now, you pretty much have to take the whole map before this happens.

But I agree, Russian infantry is pretty strong :P
Had fun doing this earlier
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heeroduo
10 Jun 2013, 00:06 AM
#112
avatar of heeroduo

Posts: 144

if soviet can't use ramming, soviet can't destroy Panther.

AT? SU85? :(

But the probability must be lower. main gun destroy.
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CombatMuffin
10 Jun 2013, 07:41 AM
#113
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jun 2013, 23:45 PMhubewa


This would be much easier in COH1. The problem with this here is that strat points give you fuel. So now, you pretty much have to take the whole map before this happens.

But I agree, Russian infantry is pretty strong :P


I believe strat points shouldn't give you fuel (you should only get it from OP's or dedicated points) but thats another topic.

Regardless of the resource flow, if you deny the enemy the High Fuel points in the map, you will have a fuel advatange which should allow you to outtech any german player, easily (as long as you deny him that fuel, constantly).

Sure, he'll be able to get that panther, eventually, if the game carries on long enough, but you'll outumber his panther with your AT vehicles.

Today I played a 2v2 game where my ally's elephant got destroyed by Guard spam. Granted, it took a while at the rear amor, but hey they pulled it off (we won anyways).
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NanoNaps
11 Jun 2013, 06:17 AM
#114
avatar of NanoNaps

Posts: 73

I would agree about the fuel points if in muliplayer games you would not be able to just build fuel depots on every point.

I guess fuel comes in to fast in general in this game.
I had a 1v1 were i was able to hold both fuel points with only T0 except 1 guard squad and as soon as german FHT came out i had a T34 out and able to spam it (because germans have no real counter that early).
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Nullist
11 Jun 2013, 07:07 AM
#115
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Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
FHT can be countered by a single AT Nade.

T70 owns it outright.

Clowncar with Flamer engies in it can also, nominally, be countered by a single Faust, but that doesn prevent the Engies feom dismounting and contiuing flamer dmg on foot, whereas a FHT will be unable to close into firing range, due to engine dmg.

These are not valid or carrying arguments in support of Clowncar being balanced.
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Fortune
18 Jun 2013, 00:07 AM
#116
avatar of Fortune
Donator 11

Posts: 532 | Subs: 1

Not to mention "Overdrive" is another munition-free ability at Vet 1 M3. Vet 1 Blitzkrieg which does roughly the same thing is 30 munitions. Sure, it's on a tank, but I thought the logic of 60 muni AT mines vs 30 muni TM-35 was the effectiveness. So really, there should be atleast nominal costs to triggering abilities.
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heeroduo
18 Jun 2013, 00:33 AM
#117
avatar of heeroduo

Posts: 144

Now, many players don't use ram well. because T34 is expensive now.

and SU85 is really effective to german tanks. So no more T34 is not much used.

Of course, it's still powerful against infantry, vehicle and some tanks.
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