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russian armor

PTRS now OP?

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6 Apr 2015, 13:57 PM
#441
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Why don't you compare the rate of fore as well?


Because the power of the PTRS is the alpha damage. Walk up, instantly kill several models or make a crew weapon disappear then pull back.

The DPS is shite because it has a long cool down and reload, but if you volley half his army to death in the first shot who cares about reload?
6 Apr 2015, 14:14 PM
#442
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2015, 13:32 PMdbmb
In this thread:

1. People who don't play the game and think PTRS are OP
2. People who have played the game and moved on with their lives, because PTRS is fine.


in this thread:

1. People who are biased and think actual state of PTRS is fine for other units except guards;
2. People who are not biased and think that actual state of PTRS is not ok for other units except guards.

...and people like yourself who not only think that PTRS is fine, but abuse the hell out of PTRS conscript spam. Which is fine eventualy but not balanced. Lel.
6 Apr 2015, 14:21 PM
#443
avatar of Uzmanoy

Posts: 106

Imagine Double PTRS Pathfinder <444>3

PTRS buff brings life to game admit it.Partisans,Tank Hunter commander,Guards chance of dropping PTRS while retreat Keepo
6 Apr 2015, 14:50 PM
#444
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4



so you lost a match? boo hoo


Yes I did. And I think that game effectively illustrated the issues regarding PTRS's and weapons teams as well as their great strength, which IMO is an unintended consequence of buffing guards creating a situation which is contrary to the spirit of the game.

What's your opinion? Or did you just come to watch the show?
6 Apr 2015, 14:52 PM
#445
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

PTRS cons blobs are op but vetted volks blobs which thanks to acc bonuses snipe squads on retreat with shrecks are balanced. Hypocrite match.

Only op thing about PTRS conblobs their damage against team weapons.


Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this with the Shrecks.
6 Apr 2015, 14:56 PM
#446
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2015, 14:52 PMNapalm


Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this with the Shrecks.


Twice I have seen Shreks wiping squads now, but nope PTRS!
6 Apr 2015, 15:04 PM
#447
avatar of dbmb

Posts: 122 | Subs: 2



in this thread:

1. People who are biased and think actual state of PTRS is fine for other units except guards;
2. People who are not biased and think that actual state of PTRS is not ok for other units except guards.

...and people like yourself who not only think that PTRS is fine, but abuse the hell out of PTRS conscript spam. Which is fine eventualy but not balanced. Lel.


I don't even have the doctrine. Youre just making shit up at this point.
6 Apr 2015, 15:14 PM
#448
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2015, 15:04 PMdbmb


I don't even have the doctrine.


Then you are speaking without knowing.
6 Apr 2015, 15:16 PM
#449
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4



Twice I have seen Shreks wiping squads now, but nope PTRS!


Since the release of the WFA

In comparison the amount of field guns mortars, MG's, in the span of a week-- vaporized thanks to an essentially busted mechanic is about 80 fold that number.
6 Apr 2015, 16:04 PM
#450
avatar of dbmb

Posts: 122 | Subs: 2



Then you are speaking without knowing.


I've faced top players trying it against me over and over. It sucks. I don't need to try it myself to realize it sucks. Learn to play.
6 Apr 2015, 16:15 PM
#451
avatar of DakkaIsMagic

Posts: 403

PTRS cons blobs are op but vetted volks blobs which thanks to acc bonuses snipe squads on retreat with shrecks are balanced. Hypocrite match.

Only op thing about PTRS conblobs their damage against team weapons.


Strangely for the Axis side its ok for this to happen, but its not ok for a weapon that can do armour plate up to 40 mm in to turn a MG/Mortar/Pak into a hunk of scrap when hit.
6 Apr 2015, 16:38 PM
#452
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 967

Imagine Double PTRS Pathfinder <444>3

PTRS buff brings life to game admit it.Partisans,Tank Hunter commander,Guards chance of dropping PTRS while retreat Keepo


You got it, Useless soviet commanders are now resurrected !!! More option = more fun !!!!
6 Apr 2015, 17:33 PM
#453
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

Strangely for the Axis side its ok for this to happen, but its not ok for a weapon that can do armour plate up to 40 mm in to turn a MG/Mortar/Pak into a hunk of scrap when hit.


It is not question of realism. Don't get me wrong, i have no desire to see german ubermensch terminators fighting hordes of russians armed only with sapper shovels, but gameplay>realism for the sake of the game. Losing pak entirely to volley of ptrs shots as bad as losing clumped 2-3 man squad on retreat to marksman volksgren with his trusty rocket launcher which made to destroy tanks, but, apparently, kills infantry better than rifle. Both situations extreme examples of bad game design.
6 Apr 2015, 17:48 PM
#454
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

i don't have cheat mod, but i'd love to see someone plant 5, 1 man vet5 volks with nothing but shrecks in front of an mg/atg/mortar, and i guarantee they will not destroy it and if they do it would be at a clip, infinitesimally slower than the ptrs, to a point that it would be inconsequential.
6 Apr 2015, 18:07 PM
#455
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

Nobody talking about shreck destroying support weapons. Problem is shreck potency in infantry on infantry combat. Shrecks on volks, which is at upgrade and therefore should reduce ai power, in fact, increases volks ai power, allowing them to snipe 2 or even more models thanks to big aoe way too often.

In last game prior to patch my supressed volks blob, all vet 2-3, all armed with srecks wiped full health 4 man USF hmg crew in one volley on long distance. Ofc, shrecks acc were nerfed after patch (still not enough against infantry), and it is example of rare occasion, but such occasions should not happen at all.
6 Apr 2015, 18:18 PM
#456
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

Nobody talking about shreck destroying support weapons. Problem is shreck potency in infantry on infantry combat. Shrecks on volks, which is at upgrade and therefore should reduce ai power, in fact, increases volks ai power, allowing them to snipe 2 or even more models thanks to big aoe way too often.

.... example of rare occasion, but such occasions should not happen at all.


To your point about shrecks vs. infantry, their AI power on average pales in comparison to the current PTRS. The squad wipe to the most extreme, and even less extreme cases of a model getting hit by a shreck shell is so rare as to be very inconsequential. This is not the case with PTRS' and squad members and ESPECIALLY weapons teams.

The PTRS also holds a different role, it should have great AI power than a shreck

BUT

This all predicates the absurd metaphor that people are making presuming that this is just Axis whining. When in fact giving it more AI power has unveiled larger, arguably game breaking issues.
6 Apr 2015, 18:20 PM
#457
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



The PTRS does 40 damage, the Gren Kar does 16 damage.


The Kar shoots faster, can be shoot on the move, and doesn't take ages to actually shoot after stopping. They also don't have problems hitting targets which move around them.

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2015, 05:30 AMkamk
And what's even the point of the DP up for guards now?
I just hope they adjust it somehow, while it still remains a decent light AT as it is atm.


The damage of a single DP is not awesome, as you pick one and make the squad excell, but being 2 and the added utility of button gives them enough damage to be useful AI. Pre WFA, Guards (which lost at least 1 PTRS) where the highest DPS at long range. People nowadays are spoiled thinking everything should be at Paras 1919 or Ober LMG34 levels.

DPS is not everything, otherwise there would be no difference if the Elefant does 640 dmg per shot, but its reload is doubled - right?


Make the elephant have a 22% or less chance to hit at range, let it not be able to shoot on the move or rotating, and it takes a couple of seconds to shoot after acquiring a target. That's what you are asking for.

,

You are wrong. guards with PTRS/lmg beats Ober with lmg head on. That should not be like that and it is fair enough considering their price difference, time they arrive, and teching Obers require and guards not.


I was gonna show you the DPS, HP pools, etc but Lemon beat me to test them up.
6 Apr 2015, 18:21 PM
#458
avatar of KovuTalli

Posts: 332

Missed a trick with this thread, it should be called OPTRS :(
6 Apr 2015, 18:25 PM
#459
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1



It is not question of realism. Don't get me wrong, i have no desire to see german ubermensch terminators fighting hordes of russians armed only with sapper shovels, but gameplay>realism for the sake of the game. Losing pak entirely to volley of ptrs shots as bad as losing clumped 2-3 man squad on retreat to marksman volksgren with his trusty rocket launcher which made to destroy tanks, but, apparently, kills infantry better than rifle. Both situations extreme examples of bad game design.



This. Every time someone says unit X is OP/UP, other factions' fanboys start saying "What about Y? Why what unit is blahblahblah". We can go on and on and justify balance issues by comparing OP/UP units and weapons.

AT weapons sniping infantry are bad design, no matter if it's Panzerschreck or PTRS. Although, PTRS should have AI capabilities when it's used by Guards or partizans. But a change like this on you main line infantry is bad. Take a look at OKW. Why we are frustrated by SchreckBlob? Because you turn you AI core unit into laser guided tank hunters. Any drastic change to mainline infantry has the potential to break the game, because they are spammable and cheap.
6 Apr 2015, 18:26 PM
#460
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Gonna say it again:

-PTRS destroying crewed support weapons is not fine.
-Everything else is fine.

Note: for those who at one point thought it was a good idea giving Cons a DP upgrade, look at how people are complaining when they give them a Kar/Shotgun.

Edit: Cons PTRS could easily see a cost increase although.
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