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How to use Assault Grens?

8 Sep 2014, 15:47 PM
#1
avatar of Kallipolan

Posts: 196

For a long time now I've had real trouble playing Ostheer on urban, close-combat based maps like Stalingrad and Semoskiy, and the Mechanized Assault commander has been suggested to me as a solution. Supposedly, Assault Grenadiers are excellent at close range and can allow you to apply early pressure against Riflemen and Conscripts.

However, my experience has been very different. Assault Grens seem shockingly bad for 280 manpower - its almost a joke how bad they are compared to Riflemen, and for the same cost. If you can flank a lone Rifleman squad and get in close they will win, but in any other situation they seem practically useless. If there's another squads nearby you might as well forget it, and if a Rifle squad spots you at a decent range, you can expect to lose 1-2 models whilst closing in, which forces you to retreat almost as soon as you get into short range. Hanging back and using cover doesn't work for me either, since their DPS seems terrible at anything other than point-blank range.

What am I doing wrong? I really need something to help me out on these maps (especially against USF), but I just can't make Ass Grens work.
8 Sep 2014, 16:20 PM
#2
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

If you watch dragonite's streams she uses assgrens alot but she easily rages at the sight of a kv8. For most people it depends on the map assgrens are used on to be effective.
8 Sep 2014, 16:28 PM
#3
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

It also depends on the situation such as which tier the soviet opponent is going. Which you can see by looking at building traces in his base. Hopefully you know the shape of the tiers :P
8 Sep 2014, 19:20 PM
#4
avatar of Casparitus

Posts: 154 | Subs: 2

I've played Mechanized A LOT. Always thought the StuG E was a bit OP. Never understood why more people don't use it. Anyway, i seldom used Assgrens - only sometimes for the fun of it at the start of a game. In urban maps they can be useful when supported. Maybe it's just my imagination but having 2 or more squads of assgrens just bleeds a lot of manpower. I don't find their grenades very useful since it takes away a lot of their firepower while they are supposed to be at their strongest. (Short range) Also the lack of upgrades and fausts doesn't help.

With that being said! I like them! Just because you can do variations of your openings with them and normally I don't like to do the same thing over and over. With the sprint and submachine guns they really are a threat against snipers on less open maps.
4 Oct 2014, 22:21 PM
#5
avatar of TheMightyCthulu

Posts: 127

I use them early in tandem with a Grenadier squad. I only build one. I send the Grenadier to engage at range, and when a US player tries to close, I rush my Assault Grenadiers in and can almost always win early engagements this way. By the end of the game I usually have (if they survived) 2 veterancy on them.

I usually use this commander versus Americans, not so much versus the Soviets. Mainly for the Tiger and the StuG variant.
5 Oct 2014, 00:18 AM
#6
avatar of Seeker

Posts: 83

Can someone tell me how Assault Grenadiers compare to Assault Engineers from USF?
5 Oct 2014, 10:06 AM
#7
avatar of Gneckes

Posts: 196

I don't know how they compare in direct combat, but I'd argue that the Assault Engineers have more utility due to Demo Charges.
5 Oct 2014, 23:34 PM
#8
avatar of Kallipolan

Posts: 196

AssEngies are unquestionably better, they will beat AssGrens in an even fight, have slightly better (I think) near DPS but have better effective range. Flamethrowers and Demo Charges mean Assault Engineers also have better utility. 5 man squads and the chance of the flamethrower exploding are the only advantages Assault Grenadiers have.
6 Oct 2014, 18:48 PM
#9
avatar of B.Lastbar

Posts: 41

I think the key point to using AssGrens in the early game is that you have to get your engagements right. That means you absolutely have to hide them behind a building so you can attack the opponent at close range.

So I think you need two things to use them efficiently. 1. a building, and 2. a path that your opponent walks so you can intercept him or her. I think this means you have to really plan how you use your AssGrens. Like, on Semoskiy, you can't use them on the open fields, you have to send them either into the middle or to the western ammo point. Both places have many sightblockers, so you have a chance of running into a squad of your opponent.

Let us look at the Western ammo point for an example. If an opponent's quad would approach from the south, he has to go either through a small "gateway" of hedges or jump over the fence. Before he or she has entered the area, most of the sight is blocked by a piece of hedgerow between the entrence and the fence to the right side. So if your opponent tries to enter the area, your AssGrens can engage the squad at point blank range and as a surprise, winning you the engagement and giving you time to kill some models.

Note that I am talking about the first few minutes of the game, where a 1 vs 1 squad fight means quite much. I also wouldn't use AssGrens in the way described above, as you can only do it as the northern player while you do not have that much to gain from the point as the northern player. Also, I think it would be quite challenging to get your AssGrens there without giving up capping power. But this is, in my opinion, the way you should use AssGrens. Setting up ambushes in the early game that win you much control over the map, while taking next to no damage on the AssGrens.
6 Oct 2014, 19:03 PM
#10
avatar of VIPUKS

Posts: 431 | Subs: 1

Very simple. If vs soviets go assault them and in mid and late game it's personal body guard for mg42, mg34.... any team gun.
6 Oct 2014, 21:03 PM
#11
avatar of Diogenes5

Posts: 269

Assault grenadiers are almost exactly the same as the volksgrenadiers from vCOH once you upgraded them with mp40's. They have bad accuracy on the move I think so you can't use them like you would panzer grenadiers to chase down retreating squads. You have to flank and then put them standing still in cover and they will kill anything at close range. They are useful for starts where you don't bother with building Tier 2 at all.

Just get 3-4 squads of Assault grenadiers and swarm the map.

Remember Tier 2 delays your ability to cap the map because you have to have your pioneers build the building and spend manpower on it while Americans and Russians just build units and cap. Assault grenadiers keep you more even in terms of early capping and if you micro them well, they can give you much better map control than other starts. Also in general ostheer is designed such that grenadiers always lose 1on1 versus the other side's basic infrantry unit (conscripts or riflemen). Assault Grenadiers can actually almost always win in early fights if you micro them well.

The tradeoff is they don't scale as well into the end game. G43's let you flank and chase down units at range more effectively and lmg42's just rape. And you don't get panzer-fausts either.

In general you go for a stronger early start in order to have more resources to use call ins like the halftrack and assault stug.

The bad thing is they don't scale as well becau
9 Oct 2014, 13:48 PM
#12
avatar of Casparitus

Posts: 154 | Subs: 2

Last couple of weeks I've been using them extensively in everything from 1v1 to 4v4s and I still like them a lot. Probably more now then I did before! In team games you can get away with skipping T1 and get 4 AGs and use them to build a reinforcement and healing bunker quite offensively meaning you'll have a great field presence and bunched up they become quite the squad wipe machine, if your opponent isn't careful he might find himself caught between a couple of them when you hit the "halt" button.

I have some good 1v1 replays I could share if anyone is interested? The sole AG at the start can really screw your opponents early game up.

The difference in DPS between AGs and AEs favours the AEs.
9 Oct 2014, 14:16 PM
#13
avatar of TNrg

Posts: 640

I guess you could use them in combination with grens. Leave grens doing the long range fight, focusing on the same squad that you will close in with assault grens.

I Wish I had this commander, still waiting for lucky war spoils RNG to drop it for me:D
9 Oct 2014, 14:25 PM
#14
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

I don't have them but from facing them i find they extremely easy to manage. they seem to do no damage while moving or above >10 range. They have no faust so extra vulnerable to light vehicles.
They have around the same role as sturmpios in the early game and they just pale compared to that, even for the cost
9 Oct 2014, 15:02 PM
#15
avatar of Casparitus

Posts: 154 | Subs: 2

I wouldn't worry too much playing against them either but I find them funny and sometimes very effective early on since they don't have any build time.

You can afford both an AG and T1 from the first second. Use your AG to rush for you opponents fuel and just sit in green cover/house and let him spend time and resources getting you out of there. A good choice can be an MG as second unit. If you manage to pull that start off you're in a great position and possibly even GG-material.

*Here you have two examples, one being like 3 minute long.

10 Oct 2014, 14:18 PM
#16
avatar of MadeMan

Posts: 304

As said a few times above, I don't use them much but when I do it's in conjunction with regular grens. Grens can engage an enemy squad then flank with AssGrens, or break them into different areas of the map to cap, then bring them together to handle long and short range.

Anyone tried coupling them with a sniper? I imagine that would be quite lethal, since anyone trying to rush the sniper will get cut down by the AssGrens. It would be extremely MP heavy of course...
13 Oct 2014, 05:10 AM
#17
avatar of Casparitus

Posts: 154 | Subs: 2

I also had that thought but vs Soviet he might as well build t1 and get an m3 just to rush the sniper and still make it worthwhile. Versus an american it might work better but you won't have anywhere close as many units and will make early game very hard. Would probably be fun to try to make it work.
15 Oct 2014, 09:30 AM
#18
avatar of Glassfish
Benefactor 340

Posts: 88

I think they are a bit overpriced considering how flimsy they are, they don't have the armor of shock troops and seem to have the accuracy of imperial storm troopers but i guess if you let the Gren quad kite send in the Ass Grens then you could do some decent damage
15 Oct 2014, 11:32 AM
#19
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1061

Assault grenadiers are almost exactly the same as the volksgrenadiers from vCOH once you upgraded them with mp40's. They have bad accuracy on the move I think so you can't use them like you would panzer grenadiers to chase down retreating squads. You have to flank and then put them standing still in cover and they will kill anything at close range. They are useful for starts where you don't bother with building Tier 2 at all.

Only if OSttruppen can be upgraded with Mp40 can they be considered the same. Old Volks have dirt cheap reinforce cost + faust which keep them competitive in late game while these guys bleed your manpower like a Humvee burn through gas and they are even more useless than cons in late game.
15 Oct 2014, 21:33 PM
#20
avatar of Diogenes5

Posts: 269


Only if OSttruppen can be upgraded with Mp40 can they be considered the same. Old Volks have dirt cheap reinforce cost + faust which keep them competitive in late game while these guys bleed your manpower like a Humvee burn through gas and they are even more useless than cons in late game.


You're right. I meant in terms of combat characteristics. These guys are expensive and take forever to reinforce. I got hard-countered by a soviet sniper start using these guys. It was not pretty. They simply couldn't close the distance against snipers and were a huge mp drain.
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