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Thanks for MP patch

14 Nov 2013, 21:35 PM
#1
avatar of Sihu93

Posts: 1

LoL nice patch for soviets...500 manpower and pay commander...germans can't do anything against that.

PLEASE PATCH IT RELIC!!!

BTW: Collectors Edition cant geht free email commanders
14 Nov 2013, 21:47 PM
#2
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 877

For Noobs By Noobs (TM).

It's permanent hi-res, like in COH.

I'm out.
15 Nov 2013, 01:20 AM
#3
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

You can do a lot as Germans but the 500 mp at start is still an odd decision. I advised against it since it doesn't encourage anything but spam (first for the Germans, for the lack of alternatives, then for the Soviets as a reaction to heavy gren strats). The effect they're trying to get with it (easier tier1) isn't achieved with it, since every Soviet player will resort to spamming cons when he realises that building tier 1 and some penals loses him the map control and furthermore they're more expensive then 2 grens (including tier 1 building) and will lose the engagement.

In fact most on the forum where this changes was communicated were against it and still...

It's an interesting idea but so far my experience matches my prediction. This would have been perfect to be tested in the beta branch. Why it was rushed into the normal game escapes me.
15 Nov 2013, 01:24 AM
#4
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

Well I'm enjoying it. I think it's pretty nice to have a more open early game. Most the complaints seem to be that it enhances the soviet industry problem. Which isn't really the patches fault but the commanders.
15 Nov 2013, 01:26 AM
#5
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

You can do a lot as Germans but the 500 mp at start is still an odd decision. I advised against it since it doesn't encourage anything but spam (first for the Germans, for the lack of alternatives, then for the Soviets as a reaction to heavy gren strats). The effect they're trying to get with it (easier tier1) isn't achieved with it, since every Soviet player will resort to spamming cons when he realises that building tier 1 and some penals loses him the map control and furthermore they're more expensive then 2 grens (including tier 1 building) and will lose the engagement.

In fact most on the forum where this changes was communicated were against it and still...

It's an interesting idea but so far my experience matches my prediction. This would have been perfect to be tested in the beta branch. Why it was rushed into the normal game escapes me.

It was in the beta. Most people who noticed where pretty upset it wasn't in the initial patch
15 Nov 2013, 01:56 AM
#6
avatar of The Dave

Posts: 396

For Noobs By Noobs (TM).

It's permanent hi-res, like in COH.

I'm out.


Already trademarked that!
15 Nov 2013, 02:16 AM
#7
avatar of bigchunk1

Posts: 135

You can do a lot as Germans but the 500 mp at start is still an odd decision. I advised against it since it doesn't encourage anything but spam (first for the Germans, for the lack of alternatives, then for the Soviets as a reaction to heavy gren strats).


All it does is accelerate the early game which was slow for both sides. I think it's a good idea for both factions. Gren/Con spam was the meta anyways. At least this way the game starts up more quickly.
15 Nov 2013, 02:39 AM
#8
avatar of Turtle

Posts: 401

Both the leveling out of manpower and the higher manpower is a definite plus. If you notice, the only complaints are about the commanders, which while are a big impact, are a separate issue.

The problem with the early game is that you didn't have enough basic resources and units to counter the super specialized openings that some commanders gave, for both sides. And even if there weren't those commanders, it still meant there was a razor's edge line that you could experiment for starting builds on. The reason why there was the Soviet 1st and 2nd building changes is for that very reason.

It's funny how these trollers have graduated to trying to insult the entire community, then acting like people should listen to them after doing so. Dave and his ilk clearly have little else to do with their time.

I say instead of constant whining and wasting people's time on these forums, I suggest we band together, instead of acting childish and polarizing like Dave, and start demanding things of Relic as part of a united front. That front would recognizes the positive changes, as well as denouncing the negative.

So with that, I say, very good job on the balance changes, but the commanders are getting out of hand.

I will no longer be recommending the game, and will actively deter people from buying it or any DLC until Relic and Sega slow down the commander releases to give time for the balance team to work on them.

I actually recommend releasing bigger batches of new commanders, but with a longer amount of time to balance between them.

Likewise, I recommend that people in the beta server be allowed to speak early on about which commanders are balanced to the community to give a heads up.

I don't believe that paid commanders are inherently unbalanced or cannot be balanced, ever. But rather are an artifact of poor development process.

I also recommend the pros avoid buying these commanders, even for their various streams, as I see these guys as the earlier adopters and that needs to stop.
15 Nov 2013, 04:05 AM
#9
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2013, 02:39 AMTurtle
Both the leveling out of manpower and the higher manpower is a definite plus. If you notice, the only complaints are about the commanders, which while are a big impact, are a separate issue.

The problem with the early game is that you didn't have enough basic resources and units to counter the super specialized openings that some commanders gave, for both sides. And even if there weren't those commanders, it still meant there was a razor's edge line that you could experiment for starting builds on. The reason why there was the Soviet 1st and 2nd building changes is for that very reason.

It's funny how these trollers have graduated to trying to insult the entire community, then acting like people should listen to them after doing so. Dave and his ilk clearly have little else to do with their time.

I say instead of constant whining and wasting people's time on these forums, I suggest we band together, instead of acting childish and polarizing like Dave, and start demanding things of Relic as part of a united front. That front would recognizes the positive changes, as well as denouncing the negative.

So with that, I say, very good job on the balance changes, but the commanders are getting out of hand.

I will no longer be recommending the game, and will actively deter people from buying it or any DLC until Relic and Sega slow down the commander releases to give time for the balance team to work on them.



There is a problem with the lets all get along idea. Most people in this forum get offended when someone argues against something they like and seem to take it personal. So banding together over coh2 will never happen. Another thing Ive seen from the coh series is pushing the devs hard always leads to even more divisive results to eventual neutering of unit/abilities in question. How can you please 2 different sides when one side that has a tractor beam considers the other side having smoke canisters on tanks op?

I agree though the best way to balance is with variety. The coh2 base army and commander system just feels so restrictive after the previous games. Both armies are missing core elements that any basic army needs and the restrictive commander system patches up some holes but also exposes weaknesses. I am more a fan of making sure there are counters opposed to just making things weaker. Variety would go a long way in giving people back the feeling that they are in control of their own fate when playing.
15 Nov 2013, 04:31 AM
#10
avatar of VindicareX
Patrion 14

Posts: 312

You can do a lot as Germans but the 500 mp at start is still an odd decision. I advised against it since it doesn't encourage anything but spam (first for the Germans, for the lack of alternatives, then for the Soviets as a reaction to heavy gren strats). The effect they're trying to get with it (easier tier1) isn't achieved with it, since every Soviet player will resort to spamming cons when he realises that building tier 1 and some penals loses him the map control and furthermore they're more expensive then 2 grens (including tier 1 building) and will lose the engagement.

In fact most on the forum where this changes was communicated were against it and still...

It's an interesting idea but so far my experience matches my prediction. This would have been perfect to be tested in the beta branch. Why it was rushed into the normal game escapes me.


I disagree. The new MP change is great since I'm no longer so bottle-necked in going for large gren/con play. With the new resources, it allows soviet t1 units to actually be a viable opening. As soviets, my penals perform quite well against grens and often take the map back rather quickly. You now have the resources to react appropriately to your opponents opening whereas before, if you didn't go for a safe gren/con build, you often got smashed since it was much more difficult to get out that crucial unit in time. You have resources to balance out your army and counter more specialized units.

In other words, specialist units (i.e. not grens/cons) can now make their way on the battlefield quicker without completely failing or dominating the map. For example, if I see assault grenadiers, I can now quickly build t1 to get some effect counters out. Or as germans, if I want to go heavy on weapons teams, it's now easier since the early weapons teams won't be so isolated as more of them are out quicker (allowing them to use their combined-arms tactics) whereas otherwise your single weapons team would get outflanked quickly by the mass cons since they would usually be isolated.

It simply allows for more avenues of openings and strategies for both Ostheer and Soviets.
15 Nov 2013, 05:07 AM
#11
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

doesn't help osther that much as the bottleneck of building structure and then unit, makes it hard to match by numbers. That extra mp cant even be used until after the second squad is out and then it only buys you 20 secs to get an earlier 3rd squad. Im finding my 1st gren squad facing 3 conscripts before I can get a 2nd unit out of base.
15 Nov 2013, 05:29 AM
#12
avatar of keithsboredom

Posts: 117

I much prefer this new starting MP it gives for a lot more options
15 Nov 2013, 06:17 AM
#13
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

doesn't help osther that much as the bottleneck of building structure and then unit, makes it hard to match by numbers. That extra mp cant even be used until after the second squad is out and then it only buys you 20 secs to get an earlier 3rd squad. Im finding my 1st gren squad facing 3 conscripts before I can get a 2nd unit out of base.

It shouldn't be as bad as you are saying. The soviets lead in units is only as long as you take to build T1, at which point you can build squads just as fast. T1 doesn't take that long maybe 10 seconds top and this is only if they spam cons.
15 Nov 2013, 06:20 AM
#14
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

I think overall the MP increase is a good thing, but right now it just boosts the 2 already op-commanders completely over the top!
15 Nov 2013, 06:47 AM
#15
avatar of sevenfour

Posts: 222

As others already pointed out, the MP change is a good thing that adds new early options for both sides and speeds up the start of the game. The new commanders are the problem.
15 Nov 2013, 06:58 AM
#16
avatar of DanielD

Posts: 781 | Subs: 3

Since you're sacrificing a fighting unit, and there isn't a unit in t1 or t2 that dramatically outclasses a conscript, it doesn't seem like the viable strategies have really changed.
15 Nov 2013, 09:32 AM
#17
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

i dont think it really matters to that much for germans, but definitely a nice touch for soviet, esp when both construction of t1/t2 and conscript training happens at the same time, it really speeds up units hitting the field.

the best part of this is, the eliminates the boring super early game while waiting for manpower to trickle in to purchase the 2nd unit or so.
16 Nov 2013, 00:39 AM
#18
avatar of Sedghammer

Posts: 179

I think this is a great change and like the flexibility and diversity it allows for. It seems to create more reactionary play, as opposed to cookie cutter builds, and increases the importance of battlefield intelligence.

I think a lot of people are discouraged by this patch because it has reworked basic aspects of the game, but instead of changing tactics they still want to build their preconceived unit builds. That's why you see much of the whining on here of late.
16 Nov 2013, 00:55 AM
#19
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2691 | Subs: 1

I really like the 500mp start and the faster T1/T2 build time. Opening up with '2x cons, T1 -> penals' is actually viable now, and the first penal squad hits the field around the time of the first german lmg42 upgrade.

Before the patch, T1 was quite bad because by the time you got something out of it, there were already scout cars and flamer halftracks on the field to render all T1 units obsolete. Directly going for T1 just resulted in having no capping power at all.
16 Nov 2013, 01:35 AM
#20
avatar of Muad'Dib

Posts: 367

As with almost every patch before, the game got better.

However, commanders. I really really wish the balance team was given some more time to polish the commanders before release. If they keep releasing new commanders at this rate and keep releasing them as half-baked as this, it won't matter how finely the base game is balanced.
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