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krebs made a video, how to do it. leave a maxim of the second or so wave in your base alive, and then tech and build defenses. pretty lame, but works |
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this is suicide against even a half decent player. 4 t70s mean, that the enemy has enough fuel and time to build multiple pz4sor shrecksquads, therefore you WILL lose! |
If I do the same for 100 squads it approximates the true values. So, 100 squads can withstand 499 hits, but not 500 (499 * 16 < 500 x 16 = 8000 = squads lost) and after the health buff 100 squads can withstand 500 hits, but not 515 hits (500 x 16 < 8240 = 515 x 16). This means they can now withstand [(514-499)/499]* 100% = 3% more hits.
WRONG!
100 guys can withstand 500 shots without, and 600 with health buff, because 1 guy can withstand 5 without health and 6 with! this is 25%!
your fault is, that the damage of a shot DOESNT do damage to a squad, BUT TO A SINGLE GUY!! So if a guy has 2 hp left after 4 shots, the next shot will kill him, BUT THE REST OF THE 16 DAMAGE so 14, will NOT kill/hurt another guy.
THIS is, what makes these bulletins so strong.
and dont talk about penetration. just get your formula like accuracy*penetration/armor=actual accuracy |
We have to remember, that there are dozens of variables interacting with each other to consumate a battle. Positioning, cover, movement, distance, critical hits, support, LOS, etc.
These should always be taken into account in a laboratory setting: that is, ideal conditions. Skill is always the largest determining factor in a firefight, since it reduces the luck factor.
combat muffin, would it be okay for you, that i take this as a part of the guide? because its perfectly written. i might take out "distance", because distance is not anymore important in a conscript vs gren fight looking at their accuracy, and "critical hits", because im not sure wether they exist. i will ask one of the devs about this though! |
im actually not speakign about hits, but penetrating hits. to make this clear, i shloud write phits, which stands for penetrating hits. and the mathmatics is correct, because not all hits do damage, just the penetrating.
so your example is not correct, because a hit does either 0 or 16 damage, so you can see the penetration of conscripts as a 0.66 multiplier to their accuracy rather than their damage per hit!
10 munitions is a so small amount, that you will experience NO difference, except if you are trying to counter IS2s with fausts or stuff like that  |
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these 3% or 5% or whatever cheaper fausts and htupgrades give you like 1 for faust and 5 for htupgrade muni less to spend.
i a typical game you get one HT upgraded and 5 fausts, which means 10 muntitions more. seriously, this is nothing. compare that to a bulletin giving you 20% more effective health, which helps you winnig the first fight! |
the 34 needs a better penetration, no question about that.
if the t70 was nerfed, which is needed, i think, that the t34 should be a better choice. i feel, that the biggest problem of russian t3 is the AT, i would personally take the t76 to t3 and make it an upgrade, you have to buy, before buying itself. oh, and buff the t76 AT kapabilites while removing the barrage. It would be like a PEmarder. This way, T4 would be dedicated AT.
Oh, and nerf the su85, its just too strong right now, too costeffetive!
barton had some nice ideas on sowjets:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/3672/remodeling-soviet-army |
yeah, this is of course not click 2 win, but i helps and is a part of early game. you still need skills and micro and good positioning, but if both sides have it, this might be a big factor, and even if you have been caught offguard, this prevents losses.
@crawler
yeah, cover reduces accuracy, which means, that my calculations still work, but they will need more shots to get actual hits! never wanted to say, that cover doenst change anything!
of course criticals exist... criticals belong to the entity though. a grenadier squad cannot suffer a destroyed engine or destroyed main gun, while a tiger tank cannot suffer the critical "soldier_flamethrower_explode".
where can i look that up? would be very ineteresting to see, but i honestly think, that crits are not crits, but many bullits actually hitting by luck.
@the_riddler
my opinion is same as tychos, i will later edit the guide and wright it under: useless stuff
Edit:
forgot something |
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thnx guys
@crawler
changed it to hits. are criticals really existing? because in weapon-stats, there is nothing baout criticals, and the damage is consistent.
@qvazar
light cover, mud and ice do not affect the damage, and green cover halfes it, so these things are still true. of course, you need other things than bulletins, but still, their effect seems quite underestimated! |
Guide on bulletins for infantry, mortars and hmgs
Introduction
We have to remember, that there are dozens of variables interacting with each other to consumate a battle. Positioning, cover, movement, support, LOS, etc.
These should always be taken into account in a laboratory setting: that is, ideal conditions. Skill is always the largest determining factor in a firefight, since it reduces the luck factor.
Nonetheless Bulletins seem to make a notable difference, especially in early game, as you will learn in this guide!
All numbers from:
http://coh-moderncombat.com/CoH2Stats/
First of all, there are many Bulletins i wouldn't use at all:
- the 10% faster build/recharge of units. dou you want your units to be 4 seconds earlier on the battlefield or 30 minutes stronger? i think the answer is obvious!
- 10% faster mines. either you have the time to set a mine or not. the one second won't save you in most cases.
- the costs x% less. It makes a faust 1 munitions cheaper, which is not that much! And you dont upgrade the flamerhalftrack that often in a game, that this bulletin might help you a lot.
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10% more/less surpression. you run frontal into a hmg? you will get surpessed. you don't do it? you won't. and if you have a batesquad, you want it surpressed, because it takes less damage! WIP
- faster vet. you can either get vet by killing more units, because your units is strengthened by a bulletin, or you can get faster vet with a bulletin itself. killing more enemies will result in more mapcontrol and less manpower for him. that is, why i think, that strengthening the unit is far superiour!
- +5% damage for unupgraded Combat-Engineers. Your Combat Engineers are 4 men, who do 7 damage per shot, that means, they do 30% of the damage a conscript squad will do.
So even with this bulletin, their damage is quite low. With flamethrowers, this bulletin might be more helpfull though!
- +10% armor for your german sniper. 10% more armor means, that in the cases of penetration=1 the chance of healthdamage will be lowered from 50% to 45.5%. in cases of higher penetration, this bulletin is utterly useless,. this, and the rare use of the german sniper make this bulletin not the best choice.
Infantry:
Most of your first engagements will be a fight between Grenadiers and Conscripts. Winning these first few engagements will be a big advantage! Therefore, i will talk about the bulletins, you might want to use.
Health buff by 3% for Grenadiers and Conscripts, 5% for Guards
Conscripts/Guards shooting Grenadiers:
the damage of the mosin nagant is 16 per pentrating Hit (only 66% of the shots actually penetrate, because the armor of grenadiers and Pgrens is 1.5, the penetration of the mosin only 1, so calculated with penetration/armor we have 1/1.5=0.66)
- without health buff:
80hp/16hp/s=5hits
- with health buff
82hp/16hp/s=6hits
so if you get the health buff for your grenadiers, they will survive 1 hit more each, which means, the conscript damage is effectively reduced by 16 percent! This means, you can stay approximately 20% longer in combat.
Grenadiers shooting Conscripts:
damage of the kar98 is 20 per hit, penetration=armor=1
- without health buff:
80hp/20hp/s=4hits
- with health buff
82hp/20hp/s=5hits
so if you get the health buff for your conscripts, they will survive 1 hit more each, which means, the grenadier damage is effectively reduced by 20 percent! This means, you can stay approxmitely 25% longer in combat.
Grenadiers shooting Guards:
damage of the kar98 is 20 per penetrating hit, penetration/armor=1/1.5=0.66=66%
- without health buff:
80hp/20hp/s=4hits
- with health buff
84hp/20hp/s=5hits
so if you get the health buff for your guards, they will survive 1 hit more each, which means, the grenadier damage is effectively reduced by 20 percent! This means, you can stay approxmitely 25% longer in combat.
Shock-Troops get a -5% damage buff, which is ~5% health buff, so comparable to guards. Note that the shocktrooparmor is 2.25, so only 44% of the hitting grenadiershots will penetrate.
As you can see, in standart fight, a 3% health buff means +20% to +25% effective health which is HUGE.
Countering Health-buffs
Hot to counter these bonuses? One option is to go for low damaging but fast shooting units like pioneers, panzergrenadiers or an unupgraded halftrack, which can hugely influence a battle. Basically a single stray hit can already negate the massive bonus the enemy would otherwise get from his bulletins versus slow firing weapons.
Another Option is to go for Bulletins, which increase damage by 4% for grenadiers and by 5% for CE's and Conscripts. However, this damagebuff is only good for NEGATING, so if the enemy doesnt have healthboosts, this damageincrease is worthless, the only exception being units with high RoF, but they just get a very small bonus.
However, the damage buff can be negated by having the 2 health increases for Grenadiers/Conscripts, which are unlocked at level ~20 and ~80, so you can count this case as no damagebuff for your enemy, one healthbuff for you.
Grenadiers shooting Conscripts:
damage of the kar98 is 20 per hit, penetration=armor=1
- without damage buff:
82hp/20hp/s=5hits
- with health buff
82hp/20.8hp/s=4hits
this works same with Conscripts shooting Grenadiers, so the health buff is negated.
BUT:
Grenadiers shooting Guards:
damage of the kar98 is 20 per penetrating hit, penetration/armor=1/1.5=0.66=66%
- without damage buff:
84hp/20hp/s=5hits
- with health buff
84hp/20.8hp/s= STILL 5hits!
So having the Damagebuff for your Grenadiers will not help you against Shocktroops or Guards, which means, that these bulletins are very important, especially if your enemy doesnt go T2 pgrens!
Accuracy Increase by x%
- Conscripts: with the lowest accuracy being 25% at far you can consider this one pretty much senseless. The formula is 25% * 1.02=25,5% this means 2% more damage, which is nothing at all.
- Pgrens: getting 5% more accuracy is better, but still, its only 5% more damage. Consider this one, if you go always T2, especially if you go fast T2.
Faster reload by 5% for sowjet snipers
It will help you, when you snipers stand still and shoot and shoot and shoot.Bit in most cases, you will try to relocate your snipers after every shot to not get countered. Decide yourself whether it suits your playstyle!
5% armor penetration for Guards
WIP
MGs
Health buffs seems to be pretty much the same for MGs, but Damage buffs are not worth it, because you cant negate health buffs, because the damage per bullet of an mg is pretty low, so one more or less bullet means not +20% effective damage but +3% or 4% which is not that much.
Mortars
Health buff for Mortars: are you kidding me? Here, the Damage buff seems to counter the health buff, because all Mortars have exactly 80 damage and might not be able to kill a 84 hp men!
Summary
Still don't know, what to take? Think of your average game. What units do you get?
- 4grens-->buff grens, not mgs
- 6maxims-->dont buff conscripts
Thats why i would not buff mortars or mg42s at all, because you will most likely not get more than two. Buffing your Grens/Conscripts will help all of them, simple as that!
Getting and negating health buffs is a huge deal in early game, because it seems to drastically change the first minutes and the first engagement. The guard and shock-troop health buff cannot be negated by a bulletin, so they are very good, because your enemy might waste a bulletin slot.
If you are playing a tournament, it may be important to see, which buff your enemy has, and then have a loadout ready to counter it.
In Mid- and Lategame these buffs become less important, because of high RoF Weapons from Pgrens and Shocks, and because of very high dmg wepaons from tanks.
Any tips, mistakes, etcetera?
Edit:
Corrected some misspellings, words, ...
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