Something else I wondered is: doesn't the Molotov have a wrong role in this game?
It's primarily anti-infantry in the game, but AFAIR the Molotov was invented as an alternative to AT because AT was in shortage (it was used to throw at the engines air intake).
Rework Conscripts/Oorah
17 Sep 2013, 13:00 PM
#21
Posts: 688
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
17 Sep 2013, 13:09 PM
#22
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedMolotovs have practically zero AI potential IRL, and where certainly not used as AI in war.
Infact, even during WWII, they quickly became relatively useless vs armor, as modifications where made to prevent the ignited fuel running into vulnerable areas of the engine/crew compartment.
Infact, even during WWII, they quickly became relatively useless vs armor, as modifications where made to prevent the ignited fuel running into vulnerable areas of the engine/crew compartment.
17 Sep 2013, 13:22 PM
#23
Posts: 928
Molotov has a decent chance to instakill at least one guy in the squad. Putting it's effect on tanks aside, Panther is the worst vehicle in the game. Forcing you to abandon cover/buildings is not a small deal. I wish they'd just replace it with F1s or something.
I completely disagree
GO THE BRUMMBAR, the only unit that is specifically in the game for cheesing opponents to death.
Had fun doing this earlier
17 Sep 2013, 13:51 PM
#24
Posts: 409
I completely disagree
GO THE BRUMMBAR, the only unit that is specifically in the game for cheesing opponents to death.
So true. Is there anything a brummbar can do that a Stug + Ostwind can't do better? They cost about the same after teching costs.
17 Sep 2013, 16:22 PM
#25
Posts: 101
The change the OP is proposing will benefit conscripts more than it would hurt. The difference in ppsh vs. non-ppsh conscripts is massive. When going with the HTD doctrine, I always end the game with vet 3 conscripts due to ppsh. Otherwise conscripts end up being AT nade platforms that can speed around and cap. I'd gladly trade oorah for ppsh any day, though 50 fuel is too steep of a cost.
Also, as others have pointed out, oorah != fire up.
Also, as others have pointed out, oorah != fire up.
17 Sep 2013, 23:16 PM
#26
![avatar of =][=mmortal](/uploads/avatar/6497.jpg?updated=1372535109)
Posts: 215
Not really, unless the squad is really low health, molotov takes allot of time on mobile infantry. Putting it's effect on garrisoned units aside, I think its the worse grande in the game, and perhaps that's why its the cheapest.
incorrect, a molotov will almost always insta kill 1 guy. Its cheap cost mean its spammed regularly. In fact I just had a mg42 ran down by a conscript which placed a molotov on the mg when it auto-deployed to shoot and it burned to death in about 1-2 seconds, total crew kill.
Far more importantly it completely changes the meta of the t1 game.
The only thing soviets do now is rush conscripts into buildings and sit there to cut you off from fuel/cutoffs knowing that, like a fast t70, its extremely hard to counter. Scripts are generalist units which means they can build 4-5+ of them and have an infantry force to last the rest of the game with no downside.
17 Sep 2013, 23:26 PM
#27
Posts: 928
The change the OP is proposing will benefit conscripts more than it would hurt. The difference in ppsh vs. non-ppsh conscripts is massive. When going with the HTD doctrine, I always end the game with vet 3 conscripts due to ppsh. Otherwise conscripts end up being AT nade platforms that can speed around and cap. I'd gladly trade oorah for ppsh any day, though 50 fuel is too steep of a cost.
Also, as others have pointed out, oorah != fire up.
Pretty much the essence of the change I'm proposing.
This will allow Conscripts to do decent AI throughout the game while not being able to charge down MGs, making the russian Earlygame a bit more skillbased.
And just so you know, the cost for BARs in VCoH was 60 fuel. That's what I'm comparing to
Had fun doing this earlier
18 Sep 2013, 07:21 AM
#28
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Is there anything a brummbar can do that a Stug + Ostwind can't do better? They cost about the same after teching costs.
It can oneshot squads unlike a stug+ostwind combo. It's far harder to kill without flanking than either of these without su85s because of the higher armor and higher hp pool and the chance of getting stunned from every hit by it.
Ignoring the heavy tank price change which makes the manpower costs pretty ridiculous for both Panther and Brumm, Brummbär is fine.
18 Sep 2013, 12:07 PM
#29
Posts: 928
It can oneshot squads unlike a stug+ostwind combo. It's far harder to kill without flanking than either of these without su85s because of the higher armor and higher hp pool and the chance of getting stunned from every hit by it.
Ignoring the heavy tank price change which makes the manpower costs pretty ridiculous for both Panther and Brumm, Brummbär is fine.
The slow fire rate and the lack of turret makes it a lot worse than Ostwinds. Essentially, you're relying on lucky shots to kill.
The only real advantage that I can see with the Brummbar is that it can really kill ice, sinking things really quickly. But that only comes with Oka River anyway...
Had fun doing this earlier
18 Sep 2013, 12:59 PM
#30
Posts: 928
BTW, back on topic.
What I would want to see is Conscripts having a reliable DPS against infantry in all games.
What I don't want to see is the potential for conscripts to run through a set up MG position, through the cone of fire and killing the MG. This is not COH, this is Brit Infantry strat 101.
This would make for much better early game play which is actually focused on flanking and definitely rewards smarter play with cons.
What I would want to see is Conscripts having a reliable DPS against infantry in all games.
What I don't want to see is the potential for conscripts to run through a set up MG position, through the cone of fire and killing the MG. This is not COH, this is Brit Infantry strat 101.
This would make for much better early game play which is actually focused on flanking and definitely rewards smarter play with cons.
Had fun doing this earlier
18 Sep 2013, 13:17 PM
#31
Posts: 101
Pretty much the essence of the change I'm proposing.
This will allow Conscripts to do decent AI throughout the game while not being able to charge down MGs, making the russian Earlygame a bit more skillbased.
And just so you know, the cost for BARs in VCoH was 60 fuel. That's what I'm comparing to
Yeah, I know on the fuel thing. The metagame is different here though... in vCoH I almost never went T4 as Americans and relied on AT guns instead, so the dynamics were different in terms of fuel. I think it would be an interesting change nonetheless. It's hard to say without seeing it in action.
18 Sep 2013, 15:59 PM
#32
Posts: 409
It can oneshot squads unlike a stug+ostwind combo. It's far harder to kill without flanking than either of these without su85s because of the higher armor and higher hp pool and the chance of getting stunned from every hit by it.
Ignoring the heavy tank price change which makes the manpower costs pretty ridiculous for both Panther and Brumm, Brummbär is fine.
While you're killing my Ostwind, my Stug is wrecking your T34s. Go after my Stug first that's behind the Ostwind? My Ostwind will rape all of your infantry. This is not even taking into account the fact that now I can be at two separate parts of the map if I don't need the AT and AI in the same spot. Also, don't forget Ostwind blitz and AA capabilities.
Two units are almost always better than one and the case with the Brummbar is no exception. And who uses the Brummbar for straight up AT anyway? Wouldn't you build a Panther for that?
I can see Brummbar working to some effect in 2v2 teams where one player goes T3 and the other straight to T4, but in 1v1 it is much better to have that extra unit for more map presence.
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