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New Army Idea: Heeresgruppen Italien

13 Mar 2016, 21:18 PM
#1
avatar of xalvissx

Posts: 16

Firstly, I have to make it clear that I don't expect Relic to take up my idea at all, or any of those units listed below to have a chance to make it to the game, so please no "LOL Italia is UP" or "It'll never make it to the game" comments. I just created it for fun first, and for my mod second. If anyone wants to use the ideas, feel free to do so, but please at first give me my credit.:D
Which units are OP ? Which are UP ? Constructive criticism welcomed !

HEERESGRUPPEN ITALIEN

Based on the Wehrmacht Army Group C and the Italian Socialist Republic


They have the same Tier system as the Soviet, however all their base buildings (except Tier 1 because that is the building provided at the beginning of the game) can be build in any friendly sector instead of only in the base sector, and only one of each type of base buildings may exist at one time, so no 2 T2s or 3 T3s etc. Their base buildings (again, except T1) is fragile.

Tier 1 - Comando di Sede (Command Headquarter)

  • HEAT Grenades - 125 manpower, 25 fuel, allows Fucilieri Squad to fire HEAT grenades.
  • Rifle Grenades - 125 manpower, 15 fuel, allows Fucilieri Squad to fire rifle grenades.
  • Field Medic - 250 manpower, allows medic spawning at HQ to heal infantry.


    Genieri Squad

    Production/reinforce cost: 200/25 MP
    Population cap: 5

    4 man engineer squad with Carcano M1891 bolt action rifle. Good at mid range, but weaker than Sov Engineers at longer range and Ost Pioneers at close range, in other word, as middle as you can get. Can build base buildings and defensive structure, but not caches.
  • Upgrades:
    - Minesweeper and Wirecutter: 30 muni
    - Flamethrower Modello 40: 60 muni
  • Abilities:
    - Build base buildings - costs listed below for each buildings
    - Repair - free
    - Razor wire - free
    - Tank trap - free
    - Cut wire - free, requires Minesweeper and Wirecutter upgrade
    - Booby Trap - 60 munis, attaches an incendiary charge to a point (except Victory Points) or a building, triggered by enemy unit capturing that point or moving into the building, can be detected and defused by engineers with minesweeper. If detonated, create a fire pool that is 1.5 times as large as Volk's incendiary grenade centered on the squad activating the trap, and deals the same damage.
    - Build HMG Nest - 250 MP, a Bunker that come automatically with HMG.


    Fucilieri Squad

    Production/reinforce cost: 240/25 MP
    Population cap: 7

    Basic troops with Carcano M1891 bolt action rifle. Good at mid range, but not as strong as Riflemen.
  • Upgrades:
    - Breda 30 LMG: 50 munis - weaker than Gren's MG42, but can be fired on the move and has faster aim time
  • Abilities:
    - Sandbag - free
    - Fire HEAT grenade - 25 muni, very long range, damage comparable to Panzerfusilier's anti tank nade, high crit change. Required HEAT Grenade upgrade
    - Fire rifle grenade - 30 muni, similar to Gren's. Required Rifle Grenade upgrade.
    - Avanti! - 15 muni, speed bonus similar to Oohra! and immunity to suppression for 5 seconds, but the users take 30% more damage. Cannot break suppression.


    Motorciclisti Team

    Production cost: 200 MP
    Population cap: 3

    Recon vehicle, very weak armor, even weaker than Kubel's. Armed with Breda 30 LMG, weaker than LMG 42 but faster aim time. Camouflages in cover. Can capture point.
  • Abilities:
    - Hold fire - free


    HMG Nest - 230 MP, built by Genieri Squad

    Similar in damage to Ostheer MG Bunker, but has fewer HP and a wider firing arc. Can be upgraded to an Anti-Tank Nest.
  • Upgrades:
    - Anti-Tank Nest: 100 muni, replace the HMG with Cannone da 47/32 M35, similar in damage, range and ROF to the T-70's gun.
  • Abilities:
    - Priority Vehicle - free, requires Anti-Tank nest upgrade.


    Tier 2 - Comando di Fanteria (Infantry Command)

    Building cost: 200 manpower, 35 fuel

    Any fallen friendly model within the territory on which the building is built grants 5 munitions



    Breda M37 HMG

    Production/reinforce cost: 240/18 MP
    Population cap: 6

    A 5 man Heavy Machine gun team. Quick set up and reload, similar to the Maxim squad. Arc of fire is between MG42 and Maxim, but it has lower damage and takes longer to suppress than either of them.
  • Ability:
    - Suppressive Barrage - 20 muni, unlocked at vet 1, fires a machine gun barrage at up to double the range to suppress enemy infantry. Deals very little damage, but has very high suppression.


    Mortaio da 81/14 Modello 35

    Production/reinforce cost: 240/18 MP
    Population cap: 6

    Mortar, firing rate is between the Ost and Sov Mortar Team. Comes with crew of 5. Unlike other mortars, the 81/14 does not die when reduced to one crew member.
  • Ability:
    - Barrage - free, 4 rounds.
    - Fire Smoke Barrage - free, 3 rounds.
    - Hold Fire - free.
    - Incendiary Mortar Barrage - 30 muni, unlocked at vet 1.


    Bersaglieri Squad

    Production/reinforce cost: 300/40 MP
    Population cap: 9

    Very tough elite troops armed with long-range rifles similar to Jaeger Light Infantry's that are effective against infantry, and have a chance to instant kill models with less than 60% health.
  • Upgrades: The two following upgrades are mutually exclusive.
    - Panzerschrecks - 120 muni, equips squad with two Panzershreck rocket launchers.
    - Solothurn AT rifles - 100 muni, equips squad with two Solothurn AT rifles which are similar in damage to Guard PTRS rifles, fire faster but have longer aim time. Also grant the Button Vehicle ability.
  • Abilities:
    - Bundled Grenades - 45 muni.
    - Avanti! - 15 muni, speed bonus similar to Oohra! and immunity to suppression for 5 seconds, but the users take 30% more damage. Cannot break suppression.
    - Button Vehicle - 40 munitions, requires Solothurn AT rifles; 20 seconds, reduces target vehicle's movement speed, line of sight and rate of fire


    Tier 3 - Comando di supporto Meccanizzato (Mechanized Support Command)

    Building cost: 200 manpower, 65 fuel

    Any fallen friendly model within the territory on which the building is built grants 3 fuels.



    Autocarro blindato Fiat 626 NM

    Production cost: 180 MP, 30 fuel
    Population cap: 5

    Fast but unarmed truck that can hold two squads, has the same health and armour as the USF WC51, and can reinforce squad. Can be upgraded with 20mm AA cannon, but loses its transport and reinforce capablity.

  • Upgrades:
    - 20/65 AA autocannon - 120 munitions; removes transport and reinforcement ability, grants the truck an autocannon similar to the one on the Flak Halftrack, but do not have to deploy to fire.


    Cannone da 75/32 modello 37

    Production/reinforce cost: 320/18 MP
    Population cap: 9

    Similar to Ostheer's PaK40, with the exception of having 5 crewmen and a slower RoF, and faster movement speed.
  • Abilities:
    - Target Weak Point - 30 munitions, disables main gun temporarily.
    - Priority Vehicle - free


    Panzer III M

    Production cost: 320 MP, 90 fuel
    Population cap: 10

    Main medium tank of the Heeresgruppe. Armed with a similar weapon to the one on the Puma, alongside a coaxial and a hull MG. Faster but more fragile than other medium tanks; more like a hybrid between light and medium. Comes with a side skirt similar to OKW PzIV. Can be upgraded to a Panzer III N.
  • Upgrades:
    - Pintle-mounted MG 42 - 50 muni
    - Panzer III N - 100 muni, replaces the 5cm gun on the PzIII with a short barreled 7.5 cm KwK37, similar to the main cannon of the PzIV command tank. Weaker at anti-tank and with lower ROF but better against infantry with large AOE.
  • Abilities:
    - Treadbreaker - 40 munitions, causes engine damage to the target vehicle. Requires the default 5cm gun.
    - Target Weak Point - 30 munitions, disables main gun temporarily. Requires the 7.5 cm KwK 37.
    - Overdrive - 30 munitions, unlocked at vet 1; increase speed.


    Tier 4 - Comando Blindata (Armoured Command)

    Building cost: 300 manpower, 110 fuel - Requires Comando di Fanteria or Comando di supporto Meccanizzato

    Three crates each contains 10 fuels or 15 munitions will be delivered to the bulding every three minutes if built inside a friendly territory (can toggle between fuel/munition). Three will be granted automatically after the building is finished



    Semovente da 105/25

    Production cost: 440 MP, 145 fuel
    Population cap: 14

    Heavy assault gun that fires a powerful area-of-effect round at decent range. Used mainly to engage enemy infantry and buildings, but can deal decent damage to vehicle as well, although it will have trouble hitting moving targets. Has decent armor, but slow movement speed. Similar to Brummbär, but with weaker main gun and weaker armor, but also has faster reload and movement speed.
  • Upgrades:
    - Pintled-mounted Breda 38 - 50 muni, similar to pintle-mounted MG42
  • Abilities:
    - Focused Sight - free; increases forward vision and reduces peripheral vision, reduces speed by 50% when active
    - Bunker Buster round - 70 munitions; fires a single round that deals massive damage to anything it hits, with very large AOE.


    Panther

    Production cost: 490 MP, 175 fuel
    Population cap: 16

    Similar to Ostheer's Panther. That's about it.
  • Upgrades:
    - Pintle-mounted MG 42 - 50 muni
  • Abilities:
    - Overdrive - 30 munitions, unlocked at vet 1; increase speed.


    Hummel Self-Propelled Artillery

    Production cost: 500 MP, 200 fuel
    Population cap: 18

    Strongest self-propelled artillery units in the game, each of its shots does massive damage in a large radius. Has a much faster cooldown than normal rocket artillery, but has to deloy first to fire. Very expensive and fragile, so keep it safe.
  • Upgrades:
    - Hull-mounted MG 42 - 50 muni
  • Abilities:
    - Deploy - free, immobilizes the vehicle but allows it to fire. Takes 5 seconds to deploy, 5 seconds to undeploys. Cooldown 10 seconds
    - 15 cm Howitzer Barrage - free, 5 rounds.
    - Counter Barrage - free, unlocked at vet 1; unit automatically barrages firing enemy artillery units. Cannot fire normal barrage while Counter Barrage is active
13 Mar 2016, 21:19 PM
#2
avatar of xalvissx

Posts: 16

Doctrine



Mountaineer Group:

+) 1CP - Ambush Camo: HMG teams, Fucilieri and Bersaglieri squads can upgrade camouflage, giving them the ability to conceal themselves when in cover or deep snow making them invisible to enemy units. When attacking an enemy unit, the squad will break camouflage and do more damage for a very short period of time.

+) 2CP - Gebirgsjäger squad:

Production/reinforce cost: 340/33 MP
Population cap: 8

Calls in an elite 4 man squad with 3 Kar98ks and a MG42. Good damage at long range and are not affected by terrain, however they are very fragile. Automatically camouflage in cover.

  • Ability:
    - Fire Panzerfaust: 25 muni.
    - Bundled Grenades - 45 muni.

    +) 4CP - Smoke Bombs: Similar to Ostheer's.

    +) 8CP - Stug Ausf. G:

    Production cost: 280 manpower, 90 fuel
    Population cap: 8

    Similar to Ostheer's Stug G.

    +) 9CP - Nebelwerfer 41:

    Production/reinforce cost: 400 MP, 30 fuels/22 MP
    Population cap: 12

    Calls in the Nebelwerfer 41 rocket launcher with a crew of 4. Deals very high damage to infantry and structures and fires all of its 6 rockets rapidly one after another, but moves very slow and has a longer cooldown, as well as higher scatter than other rocket launchers.

  • Ability:
    - Rocket Barrage: free, very long cooldown.
    - Incendiary Rocket Barrage: 60 muni, fire a barrage of rockets that set the target area on fire. Very long cooldown.


    Luftwaffe Field Group:

    +) 1CP - Luftwaffe Field Pioneers:

    Production/reinforce cost: 250/5 MP
    Population cap: 6

    Calls in a 5 man construction squad armed with Kar98ks, very weak in combat but can construct useful defense, and can repair faster than Genieri squad.

  • Ability:
    - Repair - free
    - Razor wire - free
    - Trench - free
    - Use first aid kit - 20 munitions, unlocked at vet level 1; heal a different squad.
    - Construct Flak36 Emplacement - 500 MP

    x) Flak36 88mm Emplacement: Built by Luftwaffe Field Pioneers.

    Production/reinforce cost: 500/25 MP
    Population cap: 13

    A multipurpose emplacement, the Flak36 comes with a crew of 4. Although weaker than the PaK43 by a fair margin against vehicle and cannot shoot through buildings (but can shoot through hedgerows and other types of obstacles), the FlaK36 can still deal heavy damage to tanks, and lighter vehicles can still be killed in 1-2 shots. The emplacement can also shoot at aircrafts although it is a bit inaccurate against them, and can toggle between 2 types of ammunition to be effective against infantry or vehicles.

  • Ability:
    - Switch HE/AP shell - free, fires HE shells with large AOE, effective against infantry/fires AP shells, effective against vehicles. 10 seconds cool down.
    - Priority Vehicle - free

    +) 3CP - Butterfly Bombs: 100 muni, airdrop a large anti-personnel minefield to the target area.

    +) 3CP - Supply Drop Zone: 200 MP, drops 50 fuel or ammo (on the respective zone).

    +) 5CP - Air Interception: 60 muni, calls in a Bf109E to shoot down any enemy aircrafts or gliders currently flying on the map.

    +) 8CP - Wirbelwind Flakpanzer:

    Production cost: 280 MP, 100 fuel.
    Population cap: 10

    Basically an Ostwind with a different main weapon. Its 20cm Flakvierling deals less damage per shot and has less penetration than the 3.7cm, but fires much faster.

  • Abilities:
    - Overdrive - 30 munitions, unlocked at vet 1; increase speed.


    Close Assault Group:

    +) 0CP - Forward HQ: Convert ambient building into Forward HQ, allows infantry to reinforce and heal.

    +) 3CP - Reichsgrenadier Squad:

    Production/reinforce cost: 450/45 MP
    Population cap: 10

    Calls in tough assault troops with 5 MP40s. Can be upgraded with 2 Flammenwerfer 35 flamethrowers.

  • Upgrade:
    - Dual Flammenwerfer 35s: 100 muni, grants the squad 2 flamethrowers.
  • Ability:
    - Sprint: 10 muni.
    - Throw Satchel Charge - 50 muni.
    - Use first aid kit - 20 muni, unlocked at vet level 1; heal a different squad.

    +) 9CP - Breakthrough: 40 fuels, gives a small speed increase to vehicles and allows them to very quickly decap enemy territory, and capture territory at normal speed.

    +) 10CP - Close Air Support: 250 muni, two FW190f will loiter and strafe the target area with autocannons, and before departing will drop a smoke bomb to cover the advance.

    +) 13CP - Hornisse Tank Destroyer

    Production cost: 630 MP, 230 fuel
    Population cap: 19

    Limited to 1. A fast and powerful tank destroyer, the Hornisse can move as fast as the Pz IV, but has a gun as powerful as the Elefant, however it is the most fragile tank destroyer in the game, has practically no armor, and can be taken out by several shots from even by light AT.

  • Upgrate:
    - Pintle-mounted MG42 - 50 muni.
  • Abilities:
    - Priority Vehicle - free
    - Vehicle Awareness - 10 munitions, unlocks at vet 1; 20 seconds, reveals vehicles on the minimap in a large radius.


    RSI Defence Group:

    +) 0CP - RSI Militia:

    Production/reinforce cost: 200/16 MP
    Population cap: 5

    Calls in a weak 6 man squad similar to Osttruppen, but with different abilities. Armed with 6 Carcano M1891s that are most effective at mid range. The Militia fire more accurately when in cover.

  • Ability:
    - Avanti! - 15 muni, speed bonus similar to Oohra! and immunity to suppression for 5 seconds, but the users take 30% more damage. Cannot break suppression.
    - Passaglia Bombs: 25 muni. Each member of the squad throws a weak AT grenade at the target, however if there are all 6 they can heavily damage even medium tank.
    - Use first aid kit - 20 muni, unlocked at vet level 1; heal a different squad.

    +) 3CP - Heroic Defence: 50 muni, infantry in friendly territory will have increased damage and ROF for the duration of the ability. Lasts 30 Seconds

    +) 5CP - Hull Down: Allows Genieri and Fucilieri Squad to build defensive sandbags around tanks for free, similar to Ostheer's Hull Down.

    +) 9CP - P26/40 Heavy Tank:

    Production cost: 350 MP, 110 fuel
    Population cap: 12

    Call in a P26/40 tank that is the equivalent of a M4A3 Sherman; it has a good all around protection, speed and damage.

  • Upgrades:
    - Pintle-mounted Breda 38 - 50 muni, similar to pintle-mounted MG42
  • Ability:
    - Switch HE/AP shell - free, fires HE shells with large AOE, effective against infantry/fires AP shells, effective against vehicles.
    - Fire Smoke Round - 30 muni, fire a large smoke shell at the target area, obscuring vision.
    - Overdrive - 30 muni, unlocked at vet 1; increase speed.

    +) 12CP - Zeroing Artillery: 300 muni, automatically attacks visible enemy units in the target area. Artillery rate of fire ramps up the longer the target is visible.
13 Mar 2016, 21:30 PM
#3
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

No Landkreuzer P. 1500 Monster, No deal.
13 Mar 2016, 21:32 PM
#4
avatar of IA3 - HH

Posts: 289

pls Add Lowe to a Doctrine :)
13 Mar 2016, 21:51 PM
#5
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1037

lose the shreks and panther and it sounds pretty good to me.

There would have to be a certain lenience with historical accuracy but italy is the best of the worst when it comes to a potential third faction for axis.
13 Mar 2016, 22:14 PM
#6
avatar of FichtenMoped
Editor in Chief Badge
Patrion 310

Posts: 4784 | Subs: 3

I like the ideas.
13 Mar 2016, 22:19 PM
#7
avatar of Putinist

Posts: 175

Your tech costs are off. Full tech - 210 fuel

For comparison:
Soviet - 245
OKW - 240
Ost - 310

I couldn't spot any obvious weaknesses that would justify it, so it should probably be higher.

I like the idea with the tech building aura effects, sounds pretty cool. It would probably never be effective, but I would definitely try blowing up some of my own troops to rush a juicy tank B-)
13 Mar 2016, 22:34 PM
#8
avatar of xalvissx

Posts: 16

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2016, 21:51 PMGrim
lose the shreks and panther and it sounds pretty good to me.

There would have to be a certain lenience with historical accuracy but italy is the best of the worst when it comes to a potential third faction for axis.


I also want to remove the Shreks, but even historical leniency will not provide the Italian infantry with decent anti tank weapon, unless you want to shoot at tanks all day with AT rifles like the Soviet :D About the Panther, I think I'll replace it with the Semovente 90/53, but that'll make T4 full of turretless vehicles, something I want to avoid. I'll consider it, however :D

Your tech costs are off. Full tech - 210 fuel

For comparison:
Soviet - 245
OKW - 240
Ost - 310

I couldn't spot any obvious weaknesses that would justify it, so it should probably be higher.

I like the idea with the tech building aura effects, sounds pretty cool. It would probably never be effective, but I would definitely try blowing up some of my own troops to rush a juicy tank B-)


That's because I raise the MP cost for tech up, so I think that's justifiable. However I'll look into it to see if there is a problem B-)
13 Mar 2016, 23:01 PM
#9
avatar of Putinist

Posts: 175

That's because I raise the MP cost for tech up, so I think that's justifiable. However I'll look into it to see if there is a problem B-)


Mp costs including medics:

Heeresgruppen Italien - 1200
SU - 1300
Ost - 1250 (60mun)
OKW - 900
USF - 1190 (10f)
UKF - cba, but >1000

13 Mar 2016, 23:42 PM
#10
avatar of Deca

Posts: 63

Excellent idea well implemented. Probably the best way to integrate Italian units into CoH2 through the late war Salo Republic. Flavour, history, all good. Relic please consider.
14 Mar 2016, 00:19 AM
#11
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

It sounds like a combination of Ostheer and USF.

My only gripes are a) cheapness of teching, and b) where are the light vehicles?
14 Mar 2016, 00:26 AM
#12
avatar of xalvissx

Posts: 16



Mp costs including medics:

Heeresgruppen Italien - 1200
SU - 1300
Ost - 1250 (60mun)
OKW - 900
USF - 1190 (10f)
UKF - cba, but >1000



Ok, fixed that :D now total fuel cost is 250 :D

It sounds like a combination of Ostheer and USF.

My only gripes are a) cheapness of teching, and b) where are the light vehicles?


a) I've just fixed the fuel cost for teching

b) There isn't any. Maybe you can use the truck with AA autocannon as light vehicle substitute, but the Heeresgruppen Italien can have access to medium tank faster than other factions, and that their bunkers can be upgraded to have a light AT gun help to alleviate that somewhat.

14 Mar 2016, 12:49 PM
#13
avatar of xalvissx

Posts: 16

I like the ideas.


jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2016, 23:42 PMDeca
Excellent idea well implemented. Probably the best way to integrate Italian units into CoH2 through the late war Salo Republic. Flavour, history, all good. Relic please consider.


I'm glad that you guys like it :D

No Landkreuzer P. 1500 Monster, No deal.


pls Add Lowe to a Doctrine :)


No Wunderwaffe please. I'm trying to keep it as historically accurate as possible Kappa
14 Mar 2016, 13:40 PM
#14
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

88 PLEASE PLEASE 88s
14 Mar 2016, 13:59 PM
#15
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

These are some great ideas. This is how I imagined how Italians would be implemented, base army would consist of Italian units and doctrines would bring in the elite variety in the form of German support.
14 Mar 2016, 14:21 PM
#16
avatar of BlickWinkel

Posts: 49

I like it, though I'd go full italy instead of mixing it with german stuff, at least as far as non-doctrinal units go. Keep german support as call-ins.
I think some kind of 90/53, either as Semovente da 90/53, on a truck or static, would be enough to deal with heavy armor. And as much as I'd like to see PIII in coh, it would be a shame not to utilize the lighter vehicles Italy DID have. Even p26/40 is fine in my book - with 103 produced, would it be a stretch when Ostwinds, Pumas, Comets and Pershings are already in the game?
14 Mar 2016, 14:56 PM
#17
avatar of Kaan Pasha

Posts: 2

awesome ideas. i think panther is ok but you can reduce the panzerschrecks number to 1 for balance issues.
14 Mar 2016, 15:55 PM
#18
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

I think Italian shouldn't get Panther but something like a Marder or Hetzer to fit more with a mobile army that specializes in skirmishing and ambush.
14 Mar 2016, 16:00 PM
#19
avatar of Gdot

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 1

Me likey.

This actually looks somewhat feasible and isn't filled with unrealistic/unbalanced ideas.

+1
Uhu
14 Mar 2016, 16:07 PM
#20
avatar of Uhu

Posts: 55

I never seriouly considered ww2 Italy until I saw this post. Really well thought out and interesting. +1
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