Also I think Pios are fine. They will still die easily and they need to close the gap to do some damage. Pios coming close = golden opportunity for a molotov.
You need to pay extra attention when fighting Pios, the german builder unit. Do you have to pay extra attention when fighting Engineers, the soviet builder unit? Is the soviet Engineer squad capable of wiping your elite infantry in reasonable time? Pios are. And thats unbalanced.
My problem is that Soviets dont have any true advantage early and mid game. The Germans got most of their useful core army stuff available at around 7 mins. T1 and T2. They have superior weapons with even waaay more superior weapon upgrades, MG's , Mortars , PAK's , Shreks, Scout cars and HT's. They can also bunker down and even scare Cons with simple Pios. Pioneers. Really.
What do the soviets have now? They have inferior Conscripts which get their range cut by half with PPSH, they have Penals (T1) and maybe Snipers (T1), and otherwise Maxims, Mortars and AT Guns ( all T2 ). And Guards and Shocks. Most of the described units need to get close to the enemy to do proper damage and this is punished in this patch. Dont you dare to move out of cover and make a semi - aggressive push because that LMG gren is just waiting for you.
All light armor for the soviets except the M3 comes in the late tiers which now cost 140 fuel each. That pretty much eliminates any shock value the T70, the M5 or even the SU76 had. Its not viable to build these anymore because your opponent will be armed to teeth with AT weaponry.
Thats my main problem with this patch. Its just a uphill battle with inferior weapons for the Soviets. They also get punished when trying to close in on top of that. Thats not balance.
I pretty much share the cruzz' opinion.
Well written. Please change back to the Aftermath patch. The game flow was great and it was fun to play. Now I feel like Tarzan swinging from cover to cover and it feels static, where is the drive?
Relic spent month after month to get it well balanced and woosh... its gone. I don't get it.
Thats how i see it too.
So the March Deployment patch is here. I can remember myself being very hyped towards it. Before it was released obviously. I am sick of it right now and i have the inner wish that everything would go back to the old status.
Why do i think so?
Well, i will do my best to explain my point.
The Patch was meant to improve the infantry combat and make cover more valuable / important. And im actually fine with that idea. But not to the extent it is now. Open fields are basically no - go zones now. You get shredded as soon as you leave cover. The patch is encouraging players to stay in cover. The infantry battles are now meant to be far more interesting and tactical, with more depth added to them. But i think that Relic failed to accomplish their goal.
My opinion is that it makes infantry engagements rather boring as everyone now needs to sit in cover. Aggressive and mobile pushes are now being more penalized and punished more than ever before. Deep snow gets even more annoying now.
But my biggest complaint about this new patch is the fact that one faction seems to work well with these changes as its more static. The other faction however relies on mobility and its abilities to succeed. And by that i obviously have the Soviets in mind. You always needed to compensate for the lack of really powerful weapon upgrades with Soviets. You needed to use their mobility to compensate. Soviets dont have any decent infantry weaponry suited for long ranges, Germans outclass every weapon the soviets have at every range but the closest one. So that means that you have to close the distance with Soviets, and this still applies to the new patch as the Soviets still dont have long range weaponry.
But how are you supposed to close the distance?
Even moving through cover isnt that effective as the DPS of german squads is still way higher and it still will damage your squads quite badly. Your squad is usually half dead when it finally closes the distance now.
And the Germans are still very potent at close range. You really dont have that big of an advantage.
What does this mean? Its a constant uphill battle.
No matter at how you look at it, the Soviets need to close in and rely on their mobility, and this is actually punished in this patch. Mobile pushes against static entrenched enemies are now more penalized than ever, because cover is so important now and having a squad in the open usually means its dead.
And thats my point. The current patch sharply contradicts and penalizes the obvious advantage and design of one faction.
And this really isnt how balance looks like. Yes, i know, before the patch it was all about PPSH and mollies. But is it really justified that one faction doesnt really need to adapt while other one now has to play against their strengths and get punished when trying to make use of those? Really?
Feel free to discuss.
Here's a translation of the OP:
Stay in green cover (if it's available) to avoid your combat units getting raped by German basic builder unit. Incidentally, if you had actually tried it you'd find out very quickly that it doesn't work: keeping a combat engineer in green cover vs. onrushing pioneer squad results in win for pio most of the time. So better advice is "when you see pioneers, RETREAT". This will be a recurring topic throughout this discussion.
Use 2 units for every 1 German unit. I am not a great strategist but is it possible this might result in loss of map control? Also, if you always needed 2 cons to fight 1 Gren, how was pre-patch game "Soviet easy mode"?
Use 2 units for every 1 German unit. Stay in cover and far away from a unit that has sprint. How did "stay in cover and stay away" work for Germans before patch against PPSh cons by the way?
If you see 1 Gren vs. your 1 Con, the best strategy is... RETREAT!
PGs had their armor reduced. All Soviet units had their armour buffed to help you defeat PGs... err, wait? Also, focus fire... unless you are talking about a special new "focus fire" ability, you probably mean having to "use 2 units for every 1 German unit"... or RETREAT!
Your first job as the Soviet player who is losing map control due to the superiority of German infantry is to sneak your combat engineers behind the rapidly advancing German front line and plant mines to help you deal with the scout cars.
Second job is "stay in cover" because a conscript squad in cover will win a shootout with an armored car.
Third job is blob and hope the German player takes pity on you and doesn't support his car(s) with infantry.
or, you guessed it, RETREAT!
The flamer is dead! Long live the MG halftrack with no real counters (previous counter was T70 which now costs 195 fuel to build). Just bring up your howitzer-range scout car and MG HT to just behind your front line and reinforce your god-like infantry while Soviet player cries himself to sleep.
Summary of advice for Soviet player:
Use 2 units for every 1 German unit
RETREAT FOR MOTHER RUSSIA!
I love you.
I am a balanced game fanboy, not a german faction one.
I'd love to quote all your posts on the forums here. You were always complaining about Soviets being too strong and German being so weak and needing so so much skill to play. I had a good laugh.
Lmao "German biased players" I play Soviet most of the time and as far as I can tell you really have to learn to play.
I really have to learn 2 play? After almost 500 hrs of COH2, 1000+ hrs of COH Franchise and top 100 Soviets 2v2 AT rank?
Did you even understand what i wrote? You really try to tell me that i need to learn to play?
Look at the things objectively. Do the soviets have any advantages? ANY?
This patch broke everything for me. Literally everything. I feel at a huge disadvantage when playing Soviets now, because my units are made of paper and need to get close to deal any damage. Good luck with that, you will get eaten by K98's , LMG's and G43's alive. Even when moving through cover. Also flanking MG42's has also become impossible, you get eaten by the Gren support. And to top it off, your Engies get instantly scared away as soon as they see Pios. Even Cons get murdered by Pios on a regular basis. I even lost Guards to those. To a basic builder unit.
There is no way to close the distance to deal damage because of said things. I forgot to mention incredible SC's btw. You just get absolutely murdered and you cant do anything about it, you dont have inf units that are even remotely close to the DPS of basic K98 rifles at mid and long range.
And if you dont feel at a disadvantage yet, i advise you to try to tech with Soviets. 140 Fuel. You basically have no mobile AT till then. Only things you got are Guards which now get murdered by Vanilla grens when trying to aim at the SC and AT Guns which are best at being decrewed in about 4 secs.
I know this sounds very biased, but i just need to vent my frustration about the current patch. I feel sick when i see those german biased players telling me to L2P and L2USECOVER. Excuse me, you arent the ones which are left with an army full of paper units unable to do damage at range. And with even higher tech costs.
This patch is worse than the introduction of Elite and Windustry.
This isnt like vCOH. vCOH wasnt that extreme and was actually play - and enjoyable. This is just a broken mess.
Thanks for reading and thanks to relic for releasing such a good patch. Its like saying that i should fuck myself after letting me get seriously hyped about the patch itself and the upcoming announcement.
i like the new patch actually. alot more about micro. soviets need to learn that cons/shock spam only isnt going to work anymore. also just running head first into an mg, thinking that ooorah is going to save you, also isnt going to work. im not sure of the point of the increase cost to tech up for sovs though. i think certain armored units prices just need to be looked at(both sides).
forgot to mention. good job to relic on this patch. its not perfect, but a step in the right direction. MORE ABOUT MICRO!!
Because murdering Assgrens with PGrens and Pios are perfectly fine , you need to learn to properly micro your Cons and Shocks now. You now need to micro to get close to deal any actual damage, but beware, staying longer than 2 secs within an engagements is not recommended. Because the Pios youre fighting against will eventually wipe your squad.
I love this patch
The lesson here? Stay at range
Now this is so stupid its really beyond me. How, and i ask you how is the most basic unit
the Germans have, a BUILDER
unit available for 200 MP justified
to easily 1v1 a conscript
and actually WIPE
a whole Guard ELITE infantry squad
for 360 mp with an 100 mun upgrade? With 2 squad members surviving?
I mean, WHAT THE HELL
So does that mean that i have to run for green cover now
to not get murdered by Pioneers early game?? Is this how balance looks like???