You are funny, litteraly in my first centance I've said that the criminal orders were given, even said that the whole aproach towards Leningrad could be considered one, but what it have to do with soldiers and their stories?
But again how soldiers on the individual level are responsable for this? I'm failing to understand that. Army is an army, its an organisation, without face and without identity. When we look at einsatzgrupps which exterminated civilians, then yes. Because there was no bystanders in them, but a people who were wilingly doing that.
Should we also claim that every single red army soldier is a war criminal because Katyn or for soviet partisans in Finnland killing military and civilians alike? Or maybe US\UK for civilian city bombings where they knew what they were bombing?
I will repeat myself for a twentieth time, organisations from all sides called "army" commited shit during the war. Organisation called "Wehrmacht and SS" did it aswell, due to the nature of the goverment it was part of and due to the nature of war. But to blindly call every single soldier\company\division a war criminals just because they were a part of the organisation is just childish.
If a person sees how things are going, he deserts. It's simple if a person does not want to participate in crimes. But let's be honest, the Germans did not like to disperse, at first the ideology was strong and many German veterans after the war believed that everything was right or they were afraid that they would be tortured after being taken prisoner / deserted. Obviously because these soldiers saw what was happening around and were afraid of retribution.
Alright, and? I did say that the unnessesey brutality did happen and the war crimes did happen and criminal orders were given and Wehrmacht as an organisation is not clean. You are bringing statistics, the same way I could say that every single american soldier during the vietnam war was a war criminal judging by what they were doing or during the Iraq war. Still we have games about them, and have 0 problems with that.
Even speaking about Leningrad is not black and white as you want to present it. Sure it can be considered a criminal order, but at the same time Soviets didnt orginize proper evacuation since civilian defense labor was a thing, the same way soviets left god know how many people in stalingrad. As a matter of fact, from a soldier perspective who took part in Lenigrad siedge, what were they supposed to do? Shot Hitler or run to the soviets saying "Nah, its not cool".
Its not how army works, and its not "Oh but you have moral chose" this is BS on paper, in a countries with such regimes, you dont have a chose, its not a modern army where you have it to some degree, but even in them we are still having war crimes, pedophiles and sadists. With the difference being that in the army where is not punished, these human scum will be very noticable and the ones who otherwise woundn't do it, because of the possible reprocusions, will have no limits.
To repeat myself, you should understand basic difference between high command which are most likely loyal to NSDAP and gladly gave criminal orders, generals, field commanders, divisions and regular soldiers.
Company of heroes is not about high command, its about soldiers and I highly doubt people would want to play and as a commander who is commiting a war crimes, thats why we dont have it.
Of course. It is supposed to surround the city with a tight ring and by shelling from artillery of all calibers and continuous bombing from the air to raze it to the ground. If, as a result of the situation created in the city, requests for surrender are announced, they will be rejected, since the problems associated with the stay of the population in the city and its food supply cannot and should not be solved by us. In this war waged for the right to exist, we are not interested in preserving at least part of the population.
This is not a criminal order and the army executing it is not criminals.
What is realistic depiction to begin with. It sounds like you just want to mainly show what shit germans did during the war. Point is, shit like civilians executions, human shielding and other stuff, was made by groups\divisions but not the army in general.
Even mentioning Dirlewanger brigade which is litteraly a penal unit made out of criminals, what could you expect from them. Point is, if we look over-all on german army, most of the shit on the eastern front or on the western front, was commited by either special units exlusively made for this purpose such as einsatzgruppens or rear echelon troops\police.
On top of that speaking of the Eastern Front, we shoudnt forget that collaborators from Ukrain\Poland\Baltic countries were also responsable for a lot of unnessesery violence towards civilians and accused partisans.
Does it make german clean or does it make them less responsable? No, it doesnt, because after all goverment and top millitary figures probably allow this to happen in a first place.
Does it means that we should speak overall about Wehrmacht and hell even SS like they were all part of dirlewanger brigade? Hell no we dont, because its just not true.
But point is, who would want to play as Dirlewanger to begin with, or who would want to play as rear german troops executing and raping civilians?
It can be shown to some extend, yes its a shitty coin of Wehrmacht\SS during WW2, same with Allies\Soviets having shitty side. CoH2 campaign shown only a shitty side mostly, was it enjoable to play, from a story perspective? No.
Then why its wrong to show human side of the German army? No-one sain enouth would based their opinion about german army based on a video game, especially when it has a M rating. You dont need to always show player the shit, because any educated person knows that atrocities were commited by this army.
This consept of "if its a ww2 german, then he is a concentration camp guard and the right hand of Himmler himself" is not only a bad taste to represent in video games (unless its Wolfenstein or something) but also will just frustrate people who have even basic knowlage, the same way it frustrates people that allies are always shown as the heroes and soviets are always killing each other.
Excuse me, but when I look at the numbers of civilian casualties in the USSR during the war:
- Intentionally exterminated: 7,420, 379
- Killed in forced labor in Germany: 2,164,313
- Killed from the deliberately brutal conditions of the occupation regime
(hunger, infectious diseases, lack of medical care, etc.): about 4,100,000
I am looking at the Decree "On the Application of Military Jurisdiction in the Barbarossa Area and on Special Measures of the Troops" which removes any responsibility from the soldiers for attacks against the civilian population, on Plan Ost. I have doubts about the statement that only small groups have done such things and, to be honest, I have no desire to campaign for the Germans. In only one specially besieged Leningrad, they died: 16,747 were killed during artillery strikes and bombing and 632,253 died of hunger. Or it turns out Army Group North which was ordered to starve Leningrad with non-military criminals?
Do you know what I would like to see in a game dedicated to the Italian theater of war? Suddenly an Italian story, not a skirmish, but a story about people who went over to the Allies and who stayed on the side of the Axis. German campaign? I've seen this many times and it's not interesting.
Dont think a full italian faction makes much sense. Gotta have some german units mixed in there i think, dont know if the italians have enough stuff on their own for a coh faction
Italy has enough units. To be honest, I see no reason to buy a game without a full-fledged Italian Faction. If it is, then I will most likely focus only on it. Because the rest of the factions and that while there is this self-repetition.
If this is how things would turn out then I honestly would consider not buying this game (at least not at full price) simply because I would feel scammed.
They asked the community what they want. The answer was Italy so they promised us Italy while claiming that they want to be historical accurate
If we get Russians and late-war super Heavies then it will be CoH2 all over again
Also keep in mind that so far there is no Italy faction confirmed which is (iirc) partially because "they had no good tanks" ...
I personally did not vote for Italy, as I do not want to buy the same factions for the third time. And many of my friends did not vote either. So this quote is just a handy cover for the failure of CoH2's single player campaign. Giving up on the Eastern Front is stupid. It's like giving up a huge, delicious piece of cake. The Eastern Front still has a ton of unused units and unreleased stories.
Great, since you insist so much on the Black Prince. Then give me the USSR which is equipped with T-44, IS-3, OSA-76 parachute landing self-propelled gun. AS-44 assault rifle with RD-44 for motorized rifle troops and paratroopers and SKS with RD-44 for the rest of the infantry. And also do not forget about the RPG-1 grenade launcher, which was also being developed at the same time. Why not? This will be a new level.