Against countersnipes exclusively.
Mortars can OHK it, contrary to ost sniper who can take mortar to the forehead and shrug it off.
Different strengths, different weaknesses.
Tank destroyers are not meant to counter each other, they are not even meant to engage each other, same goes for HMGs, ATGs(yet soviet ATG can win against all others due to barrage). Why this dynamic should be any different for snipers?
Outside of general mainline infantry and elite infantry, the only other infantry type unit that is supposed to engage its own archetype are ostheer mortars as they have vet1 specifically designed for that type of engagement.
Because the sniper dynamic gives an advantage to soviet snipers, not just a different in flavour. I'm not even sure why I'm aruging with a bunch of noobs and people who don't even play the game though. If you played 10 Ostheer games against top 10 soviet random or top 10 2v2AT teams like I have, and have discussed the issue with them, you guys would all be on board.
Why do you ignore the fact that Ost support weapons >>> Soviet support weapons no matter if they have 6 or 4 men crews?
I wasn't ignoring anything man. I was simply stating that Soviets by design have weapon teams that are better able to survive artillery/mortars/nades simply for the reason of "flavour", rather than for any balance sense.
Ok. so 6 men are automatically better than 4 men squads no matter their actual stats. thats ur point.
Makes a lot of sense. 10/10
Bro I said 6 men are more survivable. 6 x 80 health on an AT gun is better than 4 x 80 health... that's just basic math.
Erm what? Are you trying to imply all Soviet units are OP? Even SHOCKS? lol
And why are you even discussing balance when you arent playing the game anymore. Makes no sense.
I meant, Soviets have 6 man weapon teams for some odd reason, and big sniper teams... for seemingly no other reason than "flavour", but in terms of gameplay it doesn't add much except make soviet units more survivable.
I've actually yet to see anyone say they want the Soviet sniper to be vulnerable to countersnipes. There just seems to be this broad assumption that making the squad one man is somehow necessary to reduce its survivability.
It's not. Received accuracy and health are what determines its survivability. The only reason I can see to make it one man is to make it countersnipeable.
God forbid Soviets actually have a unit on equal playing field with other factions.
That old system is responsible for one of the most cancerous meta in CoH history...
The one thing I thought to myself when I've seen CoH2 soviet recon team for the first time was "GOD YES, finally no more sniper wars bullshit" and then brits came and now this.
And having your sniper on hold for 30 minutes while microing from cover to cover, waiting until your opponent shoots first is -NOT- an interesting gameplay dynamic or fun to watch micro.
Dunno what games that you're watching where snipers sit and never do anything... good sniper players will fire continuously, since they will know when and where theey are safe.
And you're right, the soviet sniper spam meta and far less cancerous...
I remembered that DPS of cons close to Grens in close range, but Grens are far better in long range. That's from one of Mr. Smith's thread in this forum about the last Winter update.
Also, a LMG42 equiped Grenadier has at least 50% firepower from the MG, so lose one/two models are not losing too much firepower.
Finally, don't try to argue with those without a playercard. You don't even know if he plays the game or just a Lv.1 rookie.
And you keep forgetting that LMGs don't shoot while running. As long as the sniper is retreating or just walking away from the Grenadier, the LMG will never fire.
Even better, imagine this common scenario:
Grenadier runs toward a lonely Soviet sniper. The sniper gets off 1 shot before the Grenadier comes into range. The grenadier has now lost 1 man, and thus 25% of the squads firepower. The soviet sniper can now retreat while being attacked by a squad at 75% power.
Conscript runs toward a lonely Axis sniper. The sniper gets off 1 shot before the Conscript comes into range. The conscript has now lost 1 man, and thus 16.7% of the squads firepower. The axis sniper can now retreat while being attacked by a squad at 83.3% power.
Get the picture?
I am talking about the firepower of Grenadier, not discussing how to avoid Grenadier or skills in using Soviet sniper.
Please refer to above posts where Zarok and I clearly explain the difference between single model DPS versus total squad DPS.
Ok, I will repeat my point for one more person, but no more, as it getting annoying...
Current patch notes:
Cons high HP pool, low dps = Grens low HP pool, high dps
Sniper Team high HP pool, low dps = Wehrmacht Sniper low HP pool, high dps
New patch notes:
Brand New Lonely Soviet Sniper low HP pool, buffed but still low(er) DPS =/= Wehrmacht Sniper low HP pool, still high(er) dps
Where is logic behind this change?
Not even logic but... just old plain and simple consistency?
Ah man, you completely missed Zarok's point:
Cons: Low DPS per model x 6 men = Same DPS as grenadier (who has higher DPS per model)
Therefore, even so conscript models have lower DPS than Grenadier models, since you're not likely to be chasing down snipers with 1 man conscript squads, the DPS of a 6 man conscript chasing an axis sniper is basically equal to the DPS of a 4 man grenadier squad chasing a soviet sniper.
Do you understand now?
Oh, and don't forget that Soviets get Oorah! ability to close the gap even easier.