Profile of KiwiBirb

Difference is faction design and luck of healing. Ostheer is better at defending (better support weapons) and thus it easier to get away with delaying for Tiger. But we might be drifting a bit of topic.

Not really off topic, I suggest commander change and we are now discussing wether said change is worthwile and balanced!

In any case, I just hope that some more experimental changes in the vein of the Spearhead and Lightning war changes that stared this discussion can be included in the beta and tried - and then discarded, if they are OP, or kept if they are good!

Incendiary bombing would be a better choice for Tiger (although I am not sure the ability is correct spot, it seemed way weaker than incendiary artillery when tested. Both abilities should be weaker then current incendiary artillery because it kill ATG before they can reposition.

- yeah, good points -!

Direct comparison of OKW and Ostheer is not very helpful. Puma is a power for Ostheer and since Tiger does not requires the T4 building one can use the power spike to delay for the Tiger.

Why is it that a potential Ostheer Puma - tiger stall would be problematic when OKW Puma -Tiger stall is not. The overall tech cost to unlock tiger is very similar for both factions?

imo fragmentation bombing, Puma, Stuka loiter should not be available with Tiger.

These abilities are too impactful and should the "selling" point of commander with not access to heavy vehicles.

True, the frag bombs on with the other example abilities would be a bit over the top. What do you think of Replacing it with incendiary bombs? Wound keep the anti team weapon use, but greatly reduce the outright wipe power.
However, I don't get where you are coming from with the Puma -> Tiger stall argument. OKW can do a Puma -> Tiger stall with Grand offensive, and you dont see that dominating in competitive play.
In fact, compared to Grand offensive, said lighting war is of comparable power, with G43s and Panzerfusiliers being similar, and both having tigers. Breakthrough's other abilities are also of similar power. Smoke recon (good), Panzer commanders (very good), and IR STG44 (neutral), (and stock puma); compared with reserve inf (ok), Stuka CAS (very good) and the option of a Puma (neutral).

Preemptively, because it is pretty obvious, I think that the changes from my original post would make Lighting war and Spearhead more desirable than other Ostheer commanders. But, the changed commaders are on the same level as the other factions commanders (see the lightning war - grand offensive comparison above). Shouldnt Ostheer's commanders be on the same level as other factions commanders to be balanced? Its elaborated why this is my line of thought further down in my other reply in this post -

Agreed.

It just feels like the Army is playing second fiddle to the OKW because of the amount and low quality of toys it has compared to it.

Stuff like a Forward Retreat Point, even doctrinally, repair station upgrade for the bunker, Puma, Jagdpanzer IV, King Tiger and whatever else they can transfer over would really help the faction out in my opinion.

Like I've said before, it's a solidly built faction but the amount of tools it has and thus options it provides is a bit lackluster when compared to other designs if you ask me.

Yeah.

Ostheer used to have an advantage with its stock units, none of them being locked behind side techs/tech paths, and them being better than their counterparts. And, they had T4 which was equivalent to the power of allied doctrines.

But over the years, the other factions have (rightfully) gotten easier access to team weapons and had their team weapons buffed to be usable, and been given better stock options to deal with Ost T4 alongside the nerfs to it.


If changes to commanders like I had were proposed back when Ost T4 was hard to counter without doctrines, and Allied team weapons were hard to get and weak, I would have agreed with Vipper’s sentiment that the doctrines were over the top.

But, now stock Ostheer is on the same footing as Allied stock, but their commanders remain below those of the allies as if Ostheer stock was still better than Allied stock.

I think it is time that Ostheer commanders were brought up to par with Allied commanders, just like how Allied stock has been brought up over the years to Ost levels.

imo fragmentation bombing, Puma, Stuka loiter should not be available with Tiger.

These abilities are too impactful and should the "selling" point of commander with not access to heavy vehicles.

Why though? All other factions have commanders that have multiple “selling point” abilities.

For example, Soviets have Mechanized support tactics with Guards and ISU 152, or Shock army tactics with Shocks and T34/85s, or USF who have Heavy Cavalry company with Rangers and Pershing, or Tactical support company with M1919 LMGs and Caliope, or UKF, who have Vanguard regiment with Crocodile and Strafing support and Commandos, or Royal artillery regiment with Valentine and Sexton.

I think this is one of the reasons why Ostheer commanders feel so similar, because most of the abilities are weak and not worth choosing a specific commander over, with one impactful unit doled out to each commander

While I like the addition of the Panzer command tank to Joint operations, I think an artillery observation panzer would fit the commander better thematically than the Command Panzer.

Historically,, around 90 Panzer IV H were converted to Panzerbeobachtungswagen from July 1944 to March 1945
These tanks had their coaxial machine gun removed to make room for additional radios, but retained the long 75mm gun, and were assigned to Panzer divisions to guide their self propelled artillery on to target.

You can read further about the vehicle here:
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_panzerbeobachtungswagen_IV.html


Based on this, the Artillery Observation Panzer would be a long barrelled Panzer IV with a commander in the hatch. It could be available at 6 or 7cp

Some of its abilities could be:
Light artillery barrage
150mm Hummel Heavy artillery barrage (requires vet1)
Smoke artillery barrage
Artillery flares

What do you think? Does this idea fit thematically with Joint operations? Is it interesting enough to include?