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T70 cant bully anything above 222 and luchs, it bullies a p4 and a stug the same way 222 bullys a t34 or a SU76
it is lightyears away of what the puma can do, and significantly worse than the stuart |
Not sure what you want to say with that. But keep in mind that we are still talking about reliable penetration. P4 has a 84-96% pen chance against the Jackson, so bouncing a shot is more bad luck once in a while. That still a 50% chance to pen 4/4 shots at max range and a 65% chance to pen 4/4 at mid range. We are talking about the same pen chances which people use to argue that the Panther were shite and needs an armor buff because a dedicated tank destroyer will pen with 85-90% chance (at vet 0).
Just to put this into perspective. Shadow posted the values, but apparently no one thought much about what they actually mean.
Of course they are valid. But as I said, Puma needs 13 secs if it's lucky. That's the only issue I see. That's why my point so far is that the best approach is to probably get ~10 armor off the Jackson. That gives P4 more than enough chance to pen next to every shot while Puma will probably not cause much issues.
It was basically saying that the tradeoff of p4 penning the Jackson 100% does less gameplay wise then the interaction with the puma. Anyways I would be happy if the Jackson got that 10 armor nerf. Still not 100% but hey, i take anything that makes a better gameplay experience
Btw i love how i asked for a simple reasonable change and peaple highjacked it into their dreams of a completly new balance, but im glad my idea got such positive feedback! |
Try reading literally the first sentence of the OPs post:
Then go make your own fucking thread about it? I agree the Jackson is too good, but changing it requires a lot of brainstorming
OP made a very specific thread about a very specific issue, which is actually how you're supposed to do it. And it shouldn't be too hard to fix if the community agrees it should
Then stop playing it if you think that? That sounds like no fun
+1 |
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nerf Jackson armor => 60 range stug pls?
back to the topic, would a lot change if the Jackson would receive a slight armor nerf? Hannibal so basically p4 bouncing shots < puma to strong vs Jackson?
and if your fighting pumas sherman pak and bazookas arent valid options? (once heavy meta is fixed once and for all) |
soviet fire drop op?, thats a new one  |
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whats gonna counter 60 range stugs supported by command p4? whats the egde allies gonna have? when stug is faster and has faster rate of fire then su85?
axis already has a very strong early game in team games becouse of mg42... or just okw things...
please keep the topic on the Jackson and espacially the proposed change in Jackson puma interaction in order to make p4 pen Jackson 100% |
What would you purpose be given in return? The Jackson is already difficult to balance, given its USFs only counter to heavy tanks. Especially now, since the Pershing has been moved to a more Anti-Infantry Tank (which is not to say it can't punch on with a Tiger or other big tank, but its less effective).
Moreso 57mm AT guns are essentially noise makers when against a heavy tank, especially one that can call in arty (Looking at you, Grand offensive  ).
Besides, if you're struggling, Might I suggest backing your tank pushes up with a few AT guns? Raketen's Keep Jacksons from "poking", and Paks have a great range that will usually reliably pen a Jackson, especially with their ability.
Alternatively Panzerschreks will always be a threat to jacksons, especially since they have no anti infantry measures.
Counters Exsist, and Jacksons are Predictable, you always--ALWAYS know USF will get at least one.
Unless there's infantry or recon in front of the Jackson, it will usually only shoot under 1 of two conditions: You Shoot first. This gives the Jackson Vision, and will return fire. There's a "Hold Fire" Button that can be utilised, if your tank is low and you want to retreat it, or dont want to take any more damage.
The Second condition: someone's rolling the dice on a ground target. can be hit or miss, depending.
this woudnt change the Jacksons performance at all, only stupid rng moments when p4 bounces, its more a QOL change then a nerf |
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The 7 men was a required change, even vs lmg grens. The only reason soviets were competitive at that time is becouse of T70 that pretty much was the sole AI of soviets at that time. And guards that pretty much replaced every conscript lost. Nobody would ever rebuild them.
Or you could go T70 with t1 into call in cheese. But outside of ppsh cons they were pretty bad vs wher espacially in the lategame |
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ye decreasing it would a reasonable |
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please nerf Jacksons armor, i dont think they should be able to bounce p4 shots.
It woudnt change anything against pretty much any interaction, exept for stupid rng moments with p4
Edit: It might make them worse against Pumas, doesnt anyone have exact pen numbers? |
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