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This thread just reminded me about the absurdity that happened with incendiary grenades.
There was a patch that buffed all fire damage against garrisons, including the incendiary grenades, but that was apparently deemed too OP, and as a result, things got nerfed.
Now, flamethrowers are somewhat viable against garrisons (though one might argue they're useless because of the idiotic idea Relic had to make garrisoning and abandoning garrisons instant), while incendiary grenades are utterly useless.
You can literally keep a squad in a garrison, burning to a crisp for the entire duration of the grenade, and the squad will still survive. Nor do the incendiary grenades do nearly as much damage to buildings and emplacements as they did during that fire buff patch.
Depressing state of affairs for OKW. Baseline infantry squad deals no damage with its rifles, and can't even deal damage with its grenades. |
You are goddamn incorrect, my friend. Most of DPS in 4 member squad (except pgrens) lies in their LMG.
Grenadier lmg42 damage is equal to other 3 members damage and obers lmg is far better than all 3 rifles together.
No matter what model you lose, lmg will be always there. This means that your squad can never have less than ~50% of MAX DPS because 50% of squad DPS lies in lmg (or even more in obers lmg).
Also lmg is far better than rifles because it targets single model, killing it and decreasing enemy DPS constantly. Rifles can fire at 5 different models at once, not hurting his DPS at all.
You do realize Grenadiers and Obers don't come with upgraded weapons by default, right...?
And that you don't design units based on their upgrades?
In their default, zero vet, unupgraded states, 4-man squads such as Grenadiers have NO CHANCE against 5-man and 6-man squads, especially USF Riflemen. They lose a quarter of their DPS immediately upon engaging due to losing a model instantly, and that in turn also makes them that much easier to wipe right off the bat with direct fire (this isn't about explosive damage).
Four model squads simply aren't viable. It's an inherent, baked-in disadvantage, and a huge one at that. |
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Well, it's taken them two and a half years just to address the model spacing design mistake, so it shouldn't be surprising that the patch is taking forever.
As far as I recall, it's coming out end of March. So Spring Balance Patch, basically. |
Yeah,then i wouldn't have over 1000 hours.Linear gameplay is boring.But rng shouldn't be nice with one team/player and a total asshole letting one mortar wipe 3 of your squads in a 4vs4 game.I mean,that's more than a game changer...
Relic's tactical RTS games are balanced exclusively around 1vs1.
Team modes, especially 3vs3 and more, are just for fun, full of chaos and mayhem rather than strategy. |
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Everyone's assuming the model spacing fix will make things perfect, and yes, it's a HUGE fix (fix, not buff, because this was cancerously incorrect game design, not just lack of balance), but this won't change the inherent problem with four-model squads being unviable due to pure math.
Grenadiers, Obersoldaten, etc. lose their first model INSTANTLY upon engaging ANY threat, including just direct rifle fire, which is a loss of 1/4 damage right off the bat, making the unit useless. All the while AoE weapons are both less common and less reliable, so the same brutality doesn't swing both ways (see: flamethrowers vs five and six model squads).
As such, even if the model spacing fix actually works as intended, it won't be enough. |
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The last thing we need is 100% linear gameplay.
And there has to be SOME threat to dissuade players from just bruteforce micro'ing tanks in absurd ways and relying on flat stat comparisons to win an engagement. |
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What...?
Volksgrenadiers do not do damage.
Obersoldaten deal enough damage to wipe a six-man squad in under 10 seconds of sustained fire.
The problem with Obers is the same as with the entire Wehrmacht faction and all 4-man squads in general: four model squads simply aren't viable, at all, ever, under any circumstances short of the opponent being mentally handicapped, because they lose their first model instantly upon engaging any threat. |
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Wish it were Steel Division: Eastern Front.
The Germany vs Soviets theme is always more compelling on a creative level. |
Jesus you do like to cry don't you
A stellar rebuttal with irrefutable logic and reasoning. Clearly, my arguments are now refuted. |
No...
...correction: DEFINITELY NO!!
Certain units like for example Commandos are supposed to use their stealth to get in close without getting picked off and also effectively counter MGs.
What you described was the very way in which they are meant to be used
Yes, meant to, but is it fair? Is it balanced? Does it make sense for a unit to be invisible in the middle of an open field? What's the intended counterplay?
And the scouting rakketen...there is nothing wrong with that either, even though it may not be exactly the thing which you would buy an AT cannon for.
Come on now, a forward scouting AT gun... nothing wrong with it? Really?
Watch the Propagandacast I linked. It's absurdism. |
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Storm Elite
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Relic Entertainment
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