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Thread: Penal Battalion a completely different approach27 Dec 2015, 11:49 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 11:38 AMKyleAkira I like the idea, soviets need some kind of long range infantry. DP Guards are long range infantry...Penals with double Far DPS would still not be long range infantry... In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Penal Battalion a completely different approach27 Dec 2015, 11:48 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 11:32 AMMaschinengewehr Penal battalions weren't just "cannon fodder". They were often well equipped, much better than your run of the line strelki. They were given very dangerous tasks, ones that were basically deemed suicidal, but they weren't cannon fodder. Their objective was to succeed and if they didn't then other resources would be assigned to complete the task. And why would you use penal battalions to walk over minefields? PoWs could do that for you.. If they where used in "suicidal" missions they are "cannon fodder" in my books. Some times they where well equipped others very poorly... Don't ask me about the minefields but the officers that sent them... In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Penal Battalion a completely different approach27 Dec 2015, 11:22 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 11:20 AMStafkeh So you basicly made the Penals Conscripts and vice versa? Not exactly. More like giving Soviet access to non doctrinal Osstruppen (to me they always felt like a unit Soviet should have) type infantries and spreading the utility of conscripts around. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Penal Battalion a completely different approach27 Dec 2015, 11:19 AM satchel should be fixed regardless of any other change In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Penal Battalion a completely different approach27 Dec 2015, 11:16 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 11:08 AMAustralian Magic By definistion, penalas are made from convicts. I can imagine them as a people who enjoy to inflict pain without any hesitation, without any scruples. Therefore they should be hard fighting infantry, better than regular conscripts. Increase the price, give them long-range buff, better rec. acc and they are good to go as a semi-elite infantry. Historically you are wrong, the majority of Penals where actually officer demoted (for not being "brave" enough lots of time)and not sadists/criminals. They where also used as canon fodder and not as semi elite infantries. They where even used to walk over minefields. The problem with their current design is that they have a tech cost while far less utility than conscripts, so unless someone goes over the top with their fighting performance they will probably always compare poorly to conscripts... In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Penal Battalion a completely different approach27 Dec 2015, 11:06 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 10:56 AMKatitof ... Instead of completely breaking a unit that works(cons), penals cost to 280-290, long dps increase by 100%. ... You don't fix broken unit by breaking another one in the process. And thus give Soviets access to a more resilient flamer riflemen with a tech cost... In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Miragefla's December Balance Mod Additions27 Dec 2015, 10:53 AM here is a completely different role for Penals: http://www.coh2.org/topic/46927/penal-battalion-a-completely-different-approach In: Modding and Tools
Thread: Penal Battalion a completely different approach27 Dec 2015, 10:51 AM Let me start by saying that this is conceptual idea so any number presented here might be off and and I focused more on the idea and not numbers. Problems: Penals have been proven rather difficult to be useful. When compared to conscripts they have far less utility, are more expensive and they even come with a tech cost. They are compared to conscript a more elite troops although that does not fit their historical role. Aim: To make penal a unit that see more usage and better fits it history. Historically they where used more like cannon fodder than "elite" troops. How to: By reducing the utility of conscript, by giving a new role to Penal and by retaining the flexibility of Soviet tech. Faction changes: Penal move to T0 conscripts move to T1. Changes to conscripts: Conscripts can no longer ourah or merge, the Molotov is replaced by a grenade (with or without a tech cost). Some price adjustments or performance (size DPS) might be needed. Changes to Penal: Cost down to 200, they get ourah (vet 0 or vet 1), Molotov, satchel, maybe AT grenade or satchel becomes easier to use vs vehicles and merge. They can also benefit from other doctrinal abilities like "hit the ground" and rapid conscription returns Penals. Other abilities the benefit less from cover yellow green and garrison (80-90%) they also are penalized less from red and take reduced suppression (80-90%). Could even get better firing modifier while firing on the move. They come with 3 mosin 3 PPsh (a bit worse than conscripts at mid maybe better at range 0). Their role is to frontally attack the enemy using their molotovs and satchel and to reinforce other units via merge. Problem: Forces Soviet to go T1 to have access to conscripts Solution: AT certain level of veterancy (vet1 or vet2)or is built Penals can "redeem" themselves and for 40 manpower be upgraded to conscripts. If T2 is built conscript can be built at HQ and Penals can be redeemed. As I posted in begging this is only conceptual approach and there might be flaws in it. But in my opinion and gives penal a viable role, it gives Soviets more starting options and make them feel more like the WWII Soviet army that did use cannon fodder tactics... In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Panzerfussiliers27 Dec 2015, 10:29 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 10:01 AMBeefSurge 2 BARs also have higher opportunity cost because of research requirement and Zooks. Rifles also have 5 men while Panzerfusiliers have 6, and bonus sight with the upgrade. As of right now you pay 30 munitions for each G43; all things considered it should be 40, or at least 35. AT snare on Panzerfusiliers needs to be made a Faust ability, problem solved there. Not really...If you want to compare weapon upgrades across faction you have to keep in mind some of the following facts: Most (if not all) doctrinal weapon upgrades come at no cost...nothing special here. Riflemen come with 5 m1 that are better than k98 (PF) at all ranges and riflemen are cheaper to buy, and have smaller size and are non doctrinal. Osther G43 cost 22.5 per weapon and give access to interrogation and have better DPS, Ostheer ST44 is 25 per weapon while being superior and OKW ST44 upgrade is 30 per weapons and vastly superior. Further more Relic usually gives a discount to weapon upgrades when the have to bought in bulk for instance airborne buy LMG for 60 a piece instead of 70 and Thompson again better than g43 at 22.5 a piece and they are also a 6 men squad... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Panzerfussiliers27 Dec 2015, 08:29 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2015, 02:40 AMBeefSurge . G43 Upgrade cost is predicated on it coming on a six man squad with AT snare and flares ability, and is roughly equivalent to double BARs in damage profile. 110 munitions might be better. . The AT snare is the worse snare in the game and will not work most of the time and actually needs fixing so we better keep it out of it...Flares are good but nothing much to talk about them since they are also available to Riflemen. You also need to check your data 2 bars are better than 3 G43 at ranges over 0... In: COH2 Balance