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Yep popcap, the reason I seldom go tier 4 for ostheer on 1v1. Better just blitz and crush them with combined arms+lots of t3 tanks asap because your infantry is getting shitter as time goes on |
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my mate send me this, enemy allied team hacking |
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If the UKF had cheap mortar, the ostheer grenadiers might as well be able to build sandbags |
The Stuka is significantly less effective vs blobs as opposed to other rocket artillery such as the Panzerwerfer (Due to the Werfer's much larger area of effect) or the Katyusha (Due to the speed at which rockets arrive on target). If you are managing to Stuka a blob your opponent is terrible, as the linear nature of the Stuka's projectiles, and the slow speed at which it reaches the target, gives an opponent more than enough time to react, particularly if you're positing that they are able to simply dodge AVRE and Sturmtiger shots perfectly. You are also required to predict well in advance of where the blob will even go.
This linear nature is what makes it effective vs team weapons, however. They are far less responsive, and you are able to place shells precisely where the weapons are (Multiple weapons, generally, due to the length of rocket's linear placement). The Stuka is an anti-team weapon platform, not one to deal with blobs.
Also, again, UKF don't have the Stuka.
The AVRE and Sturmtiger are Meme tanks not because they are not "really needed", but because they are extremely cheesy and expensive, and very all-or-nothing.
You anecdotally having "no issue" with a lack of turret doesn't mean it isnt a weakness of the Sturmtiger, and buffing the Sturmtiger turnrate simply does nothing to counter several of the weaknesses I've suggested. I hope you realise that "Five vet" on OKW units is no longer necessarily them being "Better" at vet5 than another faction's equivalent unit at vet3, right? Its primarily a flavour thing... and on top of this, reaching veterancy 5 on a Sturmtiger takes an absolute ton of XP, you arent getting a Vet5 Sturmtiger in every game. Hell, all vet5 on the sturmtiger does is allow it to do what the AVRE can already do (At no risk, due to lacking the Sturmtiger's "lol oops you got abandoned  ))" if it's shot while reloading)
So are you saying you only use and save stuka barrages for team weapons because "the infantry will just dodge it".
UKF don't have stuka, no shit sherlock. That's why they are a different faction with different units and gimmicks.
They are not really needed because they are expensive, had a lot more alternatives.
so you're point is just buff sturmtiger so its better than avre. It is ok it will just cost more fuelto build than it will had ever before
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Probably for the best, as he is correct. Cover simply does not work like that, height(And even what the cover looks like) has exactly 0 bearing on cover. It's worth knowing that tracers from a hitscan weapon in CoH2 are merely visual, and them going over an obstacle or striking something between the firing unit and their target is meaningless.
I'm sure you've seen an MG set up behind a wall, with (almost) every round fired striking the wall instead of going towards their target? This doesn't actually affect the MG's damage or suppression at all, rounds that are destined to strike a model still phase through everything and hit him anyway, any rounds stopped were never going to hit anything.
Try garrisoning an Mg on the top of the building and build a cover with an infantry and watch them fight |
Ostheer have a sniper that comes much sooner than UKF's. UKF's sniper comes around the time Ostheer would be building their 222, giving it rather a short window to "deal with an MG" (Even shorter if it's immediately countersniped by the Osther sniper)
The UC is... OK as an MG counter, but it's quite vulnerable to being zoned or even outright killed by Grenadiers's fausts, and even by the MG if it enters its arc (Especially if said MG is veterancy one and pops Incendiary rounds). It also ceases to be a threat to your MG when the 222 or PAK hits the field.
UKF also only have a single light vehicle, in the AEC... which kind of isnt an "AI" unit, and isnt really able to "deal with" an MG before itself is dealt with/zoned by a PAK gun, or grenadiers.
None of this, barring the UC (Which is sub-par as has been stated) is useful in the first few minutes, which is when UKF want to be really dealing with an MG, as they desperately want to push off their enemy and dig in quickly. What are YOU smoking?
Ostheer, in comparison, have their own sniper, which can be built from the beginning of the game (Tier 1 is not a real delay), along with a mortar, which can similarly be built from minute one... they also have the vision afforded by their Pioneers, which outranges the opposing MG's vision, allowing them to far more easily bypass an opponent's MG, and prevent their own from being circumvented through Flanking manoeuvres. "Flank it" is not an unique concept to UKF, and honestly they don't do it as well as other armies due to needing to stick to cover.
I had no problems whatsover vs MG and in this game all are countered by each other. It is been this way for so longggg literally years why would this problem only starts now? |
The Stuka is for team weapons, not for Blobs, and surprisingly you don't actually have the Stuka if you're playing an army that has access to the AVRE.
Both the AVRE and Sturmtiger are intended to fight blobs of infantry while being survivable in the face of AT. Sure, they can drive up and fire upon team weapons, but that's kind of not why you build them, and it requires that you dive rather more deeply into enemy lines (especially in the case of AT guns) than you really might like.
Also: "Best Case Scenario" is, as the name suggests, in the best case. You cannot always drive up in a straight line and shoot an apparently immobile blob, in the same way you can't always loop around the sturmtiger with your T-34 and shoot it in the rear armour until it dies, which is the best-case scenario for that engagement. You have to account for scenarios that are not "best case", which is what most of them will be.
In your hypothetical scenario where both the AVRE and SturmTiger had the same shell statistics, the AVRE would still be superior due to its turret, that's what's being argued. They wouldnt be "Literally the same", even if you were to normalise their armour, HP, range, speed etcetera as well, simply due to the fact the AVRE has a turret.
Let's be real here stuka works for team weapon and blobs if you don't use it versus blobs you either had no issues with blobs or just doing something wrong.
There is a reason why the AVRE and the Sturmtiger had the repotation of a meme tank because it is not REALLY needed.
Why would you need Best case scenario? because REALLY good players can just move their units and dodge you though this is moreso on AVRE, this is the only advantage sturmtiger has.
I really had no issue with this turret thing. They can just also buff the turn rate to compensate for the no turret thing, if everyone reallyyyy need it. Also sturm can get 5 vet making it better |
Turreted vehicles are inherently superior to Casemates. You can't always "move in a straight line towards your target", and being able to move parallel to your target, turn your turret, fire, and then immediately reverse along the same path to escape is obviously better than having to them turn the entire vehicle to move away.
It also allows you to ensure your front is towards enemy AT solutions, and to more easily and quickly track a moving blob without exposing yourself more than needs be.
As a final thing, the AVRE has much less of a tell as to when it's gearing up to fire when compared to the Sturmtiger, making it far harder to react to.
In general, it just allows you to be much more flexible, I'm not sure what "Using it versus a moving tank" has to do with anything.
First thing first, if I want to deal with blobs I would rather build a stuka than either of this tanks. Moving in a straight line towards your target is the best case scenario and what you should aiming for using this units.
These units also were like made to counter support weapons, AT guns? I would just ignore it and fire in their face. If the at gun is well supported then I'll support my sturmtiger too. If that's not possible then just stuka it.
In the current state of the game AVRE is better than Sturm and I'm only telling my previous "opinions" when if they got the exact same stats and be literally the same |
Rotating the vehicle to fire gives more time to react than rotating the turret...
ofcourse, but why would you need to rotate the vehicle? I mean would you use these things versus a moving medium tank? |
AVRE would then be superior due to turret...
sturm can get 5 vet and the best way to use these units is move in a straight line where your target is, so lower the time to fire..don't really need the turret, turret rotating gives the enemy unit more time to react |
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