a little anecdote about the KT from few days ago. Brand new KT rolls on the front. It's not unsupported. It's got PAK43 behind it and infantry all around. Rifleblob approaches, obviously reveals it. 2 Firefly shots and double tulips from the FOW frontally destroy it in less than 3 seconds. And that was about it from my ultimate area denial/all possible fuel invested of a Hi-end unit. In all transparency KT was about 95% Healthwise since it got scratched by and AT when tryin' to scare of Maxim that prevented my infantry to move ahead.
p.s. It was pretty safely reversed after that first AT shot. But I was all invested to try to stop the rifleblob with my (all vetted) Sturmoficier, 2 volks, G43 Fusiliers AND Obers, which also failed, but that's another story I guess.. |
What is the point of vet5 on a King Tiger that effectively offers worse bonuses than vet3 on the regular Tiger?
Tiger B 'Königstiger'
1) Unlocks the 'Combat Blitz' ability
2) 20% scatter, +40% weapon rotation speed, +20% accuracy
3) Unlocks the 'Spearhead' ability
4) 45.8% sight range, +30% ac/de-celeration
5) 30% reload
Tiger I
1) Unlocks the 'Blitzkrieg' ability
2) +5 range, +20% accuracy, -20% scatter
3) -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +20% speed, +20% ac/de-celeration
EXACTLY !
Yet, how much XP does it need to get to that mediocre Level 5 !?? ..upon everything we're talking about a unit, that not only comes very late or never at the sacrifice of all other available vehicles ... |
Hi
I'd like to add that the game is unbalanced not only because of units stats. It's because of many little things that add up to a lack of balance. Some players fail to notice how important those 'little' things are. To point out just a few.
1. Number of models in a squad. When it's 4 it means being unable to recrew weapons effectively. It's not only about stealing them, but also about recrewing you own weapons after a won skirmish. With ost it's essential to be able to recrew a pak/mg. It may happen you have to sacrifice a squad or aboandon the weapon. This turns a repelled attack into a loss in manpower war.
2. The repairing of the vehicles - You need to withdraw 200 manpower from the line to repair a vehicle. It stops you from capping, laying mines and very often may tip the balance of a skirmish. Also you must synchronize it with retreating a vehicle. Very often a pio must get to the place when a damaged engine vehicle is. It also delays the coming back of the vehicle into combat. It is a huge contrast with effective and quick repairs by the vehicle crew which can cap at the same time.
3. Teching and not getting any units. With ost you must spend resources to tech + spend resources to build a building (again a pio retreated). A USF player will invest these resources in units running on the field, which changes the balance of the number of units on the map too much. The original design was to make it happen because ost would field much better quality units after teching. It's not true any more. Ost units after teching are on equal or even worse quality than the USF/Soviet units on the field.
I don't want to bore U ppl to death but imo this should be fixed first. Especially teching. If ost could just build buildings without battle phases it would be enough to make it a competitive 1v1 fraction again. The rest could stay the same. What do U think?
Very observational and insightful post man ! One of the best I've seen on the topic, and actually addresses some of the aspects not mentioned ever before |
Vet system is the first thing that should be looked at. Especially for the so called elite units - 1K hours invested mostly in OKW, and never seen vet 5 Obers (in balanced match-up), and only a few times vet 5 KT - and that's proly 'cause I (ab)use triple 10% vet up bulletin - which is sad. Not to mention there's no new bulletins for the Obers or KT, beside those that were included from the start. It only proves that OKW was released - then nerfed - and then forgotten. KT should get it's old frontal armor back in the form of vet 2 bonus, (as Panthers do) since it's usually a lone vehicle you can afford late game, (Especially if your tier 4 got rekt by not being in the base) and it's so susceptible to all kinds of flanks or gets pushed back so easily by any of longer ranged at.
p.s. Does anyone really know what exactly "Spearhead" ability does ? |
Excellent points OP. Before I quit CoH recently I've been playin OKW exclusively since their release. In literally hundreds of games, I've gotten only a "few" times vet 5 with Obers, and their tank counterpart KT. Vet 5 system is broken and definitely not worth the resources penalty. |
Someone would probably complain that repair speeds are too RNG based and that it breaks the pacing for esports... because you know, having everything being predictable makes for some thrilling sport. I watched a thrilling game of Chess recently, thank god it's so predictable so my adrenaline levels never got pumping.
ON a serious note, it's fine. It adds excitement into the game and provides some emergent objectives. Making sure your enemy can't recover that tank leads to interesting objectives that aren't forced. It leads to interesting scenarios were both sides are seeking an abandoned King Tiger in no mans land, both know it's a game decider and want to capture it, the rush of adrenaline when you succeed or fail is amazing, by stripping that out you remove an exciting and unique piece of game play.
That's the biggest problem I have with people who push for the removal of RNG from the game in the name of E-Sports. One of the reasons I love watching CoH is for the thrill of watching RNG push back and forth, then seeing how the best players react and adapt to said RNG. It's why Starcraft is boring to me, everything is predictable.
Great post Sir ! +1 |
+1 |
I like how you call out other people for being biased when you are quite clearly biased yourself.
I never pretended I wasn't. It's just that the Allied bias is flooding these boards it's insane.
One E8 beats a tiger.... Yea OK buddy.
If you manage to close in on it, it actually does, you can drive circles around it and play catch with it's turret and you'll win. In laboratory conditions of course. It's far worse with the KT even.
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King Tiger and Tiger Range buff is very questionable. Yes Heavies get countered by Tank Destroyers, that is literally the point of them. Super heavy anti everything tanks that can take a massive beating, wipe infantry and AT guns incredibly easily and dual medium tanks should be countered by Tank Destroyers which are incredibly fragile, slow and lack Anti infantry entirely. The only advantage is range, since penetration is not consistent enough for high DPS.
With such little range advantage what is even the point of Tank Destroyers? SU-85's and Jacksons are really going to need a buff if that change goes through, (which it shouldn't) they are already difficult to use as it is and very map dependant. Tank Destroyers should be countered by Infantry Based AT (Shreks, Bazookas and AT Guns) definitely not anti everything heavies.
Are all of you guys simply delusional ? Since when should 'cheap' tank destroyer be a hard counter to ultra expensive hi-end-game unit ? Especially all or nothing unit as OKW's KT ? Jacksons and SU's pretty much eat through everything to a Panther. They simply wreck any light vehicle, they hard counter any medium tank with ease and you'd expect them to lock out the Tigers completely as well ? Which in fact - they pretty much do, and no 5 additional range would change that. It can only be additional reward for actually managing to ambush, or flank the TD's with slumbering ultra-slow Heavy tank for possibility of that one additional shot, which in my experience usually KT's don't get to take. What about potent Allied heavy mediums ? Like they don't exist, any one of them (E8, T34/85 and now even Comet) wins against Tiger 1vs1, and your babbling about soloing the whole frontlines with one Tiger
afterall, look at the ingame description of the KT, weak against "MASSED" AT units, and after the armor nerf, even that's a fantasy.
I dare any of you biasoz, to try and play with sedated KT, against the double Jackson player with half a brain, then come back to report. |
But I can pretend that you don't exist, which will be for the best of this thread.
Great, guess we Can find some common ground afterall |