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russian armor

New feature: AT as suppression tool

14 Oct 2019, 04:28 AM
#1
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1630

I understand that there are currently news of a possible CoH3 game release and new features are not as important as game balance threads.

Being said that what if all current handheld AT had some suppression effect when fired against other infantry? I mean, explosions, stuff and dirt blowing away should affect in some way to infantry.
It shouldnt pin down but could force some interesting situations, adding some realism but mainly a use in infantry combat. If this feature can force some squads to move slower to cover or to deny cover+soft suppression then AT could be a good way to fight in green cover troops. Or units near a tank getting hit by AT would force them to spread a bit. It could be useful against blobs too.

Now about the game implementation
-No amount handheld AT should lock down and pin down any other infantry.
-Suppression should last less than a second, like if it were some sort of soft stun.
-The AoE of the projectile should inflict the suppression, like arty shells or rockets do.
-No damage for the AoE of the AT projectile, just suppression, otherwise AT will become a anti infantry tool and it will break the current game design and balance.
-A worth to mention exception would be PTRS because they target inf models and that will mean a 100% accurate suppression (even when being shot with a big A** gun is frighting enough)
-The effect itself will be random because not always AT hits nearby enough from infantry models, therefore not useful for cheesy grenade wipes

PIATS,zooks and shreks are the 3 handheld AT that should be included with this feature.
*Some exploits like zook+bar or PIAT+bren should not offset their current drawbacks, to be able to perform a short suppression should not outweight the fact that the squad wasted a lot of muni and is half as efficient vs infanrty and also half as efficient vs vehicles.
*Double shrek pgren will suffer as soon as a single model drops down (50% less AI) even when they have nukenades bundlenades and great DPS with their stgs. Pfussies with 5 man+2 shreks shouldnt outperform 6 man+G43 Pfussies. Only Sturmpios could receive a benefit from this change, but shrekpios are rare enough to dampen their indirect buff.

14 Oct 2019, 06:15 AM
#2
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 777

Nice idea, could bring some realistic feeling. 1sec freeze, same effect as stun-grenade (not that long) only for the model, not the squad.

But please, PnzGrn's grenade is no nuke-nade. Maybe some years ago.
14 Oct 2019, 09:51 AM
#3
avatar of Maret

Posts: 535

Why not add same feature for automatic weapons too? When you got fire from 6 ppsh it give you more suppression that couple PTRS of shrecks. Also for any mortar, indirect and tank shells, if we want more realism.
14 Oct 2019, 10:25 AM
#4
avatar of Maret

Posts: 535

It's all my IMHO, but add more any sorts of suppresion, only make backsitting game style more appealing. Just imagine how such changes inflict on penals with ptrs? They will be micro-suppress your squad and shoot it from their svt. What will be if player have 2-3 penals with ptrs? Or guards with dp-28? You could just sit and wait and kill enemies from safe distance.
Short suppress or shock could be implement for howitzers as examples, but not for handheld weapon.
14 Oct 2019, 10:27 AM
#5
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2312 | Subs: 1

AT weapons already help with dealing with units in cover by helping to destroy things like sandbags and tank wrecks. In any case, I am strongly against buffing AT weapons against infantry, as this just promotes spanming 'jack of all trades' units instead of using combined arms to deal with whatever combat situation you are facing.
14 Oct 2019, 13:36 PM
#6
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6220 | Subs: 1

IIRC explosions already forces units to drop into the ground but have no impact gameplay wise.

Trust me, you don't want this kind of shit in CoH with the amount of explosions going around. Have you been playing when Guards where dancing around?
14 Oct 2019, 14:24 PM
#7
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1429

I really think vehicles, MGs, rocket artillery and bunkers are enough in terms of suppression. No way do we need more of that stuff.
14 Oct 2019, 15:16 PM
#8
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1883 | Subs: 3

IIRC explosions already forces units to drop into the ground but have no impact gameplay wise.


AOE weapons (so explosions and flamethrowers) can/will force infantry to hit the ground (not exactly sure under which circumstances, but it happens quite a lot). This does have an impact on gameplay, as it makes the squad unresponsive for some seconds. They won't move when ordered and they will not retreat until they crawl back on their feet. I think they also stop shooting.

Also, this is usually really annoying as it takes control away from the player (you see your squad dying and you spam the retreat key, but they won't react to it for some seconds), so I don't think it's very wise to add more of these types of things.
14 Oct 2019, 15:20 PM
#9
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1630

Wow, definitely coh is far more complex than I ever imagined.

To maret, there is a mod I used to play a lot, wikinger, it completely overrides infantry combat and all forms of volume of fire (automatic weapons, volley fire, etc) are able to suppress in small amounts. It's a nice feature but changes the feel of the game drastically
14 Oct 2019, 15:26 PM
#10
avatar of Maret

Posts: 535

Wow, definitely coh is far more complex than I ever imagined.

To maret, there is a mod I used to play a lot, wikinger, it completely overrides infantry combat and all forms of volume of fire (automatic weapons, volley fire, etc) are able to suppress in small amounts. It's a nice feature but changes the feel of the game drastically

Yea, such changes move game closer to realism and i played in games where such mechanic was implemented. But main problem of such games - low action. You just suppresss enemy by one squad and then trying to kill by other squad. It's very close how war actions works in reality, but in-game like coh2 we want see actions, crazy moves and fun. I remember when in-start of coh2, mines always immobilize tanks, like it was in reality. But for game it was bad design decision.
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