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Main gun crits should be removed?

Should main gun crits be removed?
Option Distribution Votes
41%
59%
Total votes: 78
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
11 Oct 2019, 23:38 PM
#1
avatar of nwglfls

Posts: 240

what do you think?Please vote.
12 Oct 2019, 01:28 AM
#2
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4119 | Subs: 3

I know this poll only has 7 votes so far, but why vote no D:
12 Oct 2019, 02:03 AM
#3
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

I know this poll only has 7 votes so far, but why vote no D:


Randomness makes the game less repetitive. You have to react to each and every situation differently.

If I wanted to play a game based purely off of mechanical skill I'd play starcraft.

Tbh I'd prefer more crit shenanigans like the original COH.
12 Oct 2019, 02:14 AM
#4
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4119 | Subs: 3



Randomness makes the game less repetitive. You have to react to each and every situation differently.

If I wanted to play a game based purely off of mechanical skill I'd play starcraft.

Tbh I'd prefer more crit shenanigans like the original COH.


I get that, but why should your opponet be on full retreat, then hits you and gets a main gun crit and all the sudden you're in full retreat and they're on full offense. Why should 1 RNG roll orchestrate a full 180 in momentum?
12 Oct 2019, 02:29 AM
#5
avatar of Farlon

Posts: 184

I got 4 gun crits on 4 different tanks in the same push once. I wish those 4 tanks could vote yes with me here.
12 Oct 2019, 02:35 AM
#6
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 774

No. Why? That's the risk you take for using low-hp tanks.
12 Oct 2019, 02:49 AM
#7
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356



I get that, but why should your opponet be on full retreat, then hits you and gets a main gun crit and all the sudden you're in full retreat and they're on full offense. Why should 1 RNG roll orchestrate a full 180 in momentum?


That's the risk of overextending. Should a rout mean you've got to fight your way out of your base for the rest of the game, or your opponent simply gets the opportunity to dig into a couple more territory points?
12 Oct 2019, 03:23 AM
#8
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4119 | Subs: 3



That's the risk of overextending. Should a rout mean you've got to fight your way out of your base for the rest of the game, or your opponent simply gets the opportunity to dig into a couple more territory points?


The risk of overextending is hitting a mine and being crippled while your opponet tries to mount an offense based on a skill based play. The only skill involved in a main gun crit is how fast you can tell your armor piece to head in the other direction.
12 Oct 2019, 03:33 AM
#9
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1


That's the risk of overextending. Should a rout mean you've got to fight your way out of your base for the rest of the game, or your opponent simply gets the opportunity to dig into a couple more territory points?


AT guns, snaring squad catching up, mines, AT infantry, are all ways you can punish overextending. A 5% chance is not something that can be factored into skill-based decisions. Its waaay too random
12 Oct 2019, 04:21 AM
#10
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

My vote is no, but i wouldn't mind reducing the threshold of trigger to lower than 10-15%.
12 Oct 2019, 04:26 AM
#11
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356



AT guns, snaring squad catching up, mines, AT infantry, are all ways you can punish overextending. A 5% chance is not something that can be factored into skill-based decisions. Its waaay too random


If you know there's a 5% chance for main gun crit then why exactly cant you factor it in?

All your overextending punishments are punishments for lack of skill on behalf of the attacking player. They're not skill based defenses. Every single one of those can be avoided by a skilled attacking player.

I hope they hit my mine, or I hope they get in range of a snare is a random factor also. It's relying on your opponent to make a mistake, and those mechanics aren't particularly fun.

Fighting with a low health vehicle is rolling the dice, and sometimes you'll roll a 1.
12 Oct 2019, 05:19 AM
#12
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905



If you know there's a 5% chance for main gun crit then why exactly cant you factor it in?

All your overextending punishments are punishments for lack of skill on behalf of the attacking player. They're not skill based defenses. Every single one of those can be avoided by a skilled attacking player.

I hope they hit my mine, or I hope they get in range of a snare is a random factor also. It's relying on your opponent to make a mistake, and those mechanics aren't particularly fun.

Fighting with a low health vehicle is rolling the dice, and sometimes you'll roll a 1.


Every flank could be called an overextension. I've flanked an Elefant only to get a main gun crit on a T34.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if it was gone but also think that Relic would have no interest in removing a feature from the game.
12 Oct 2019, 05:39 AM
#13
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 05:19 AMGrumpy


Every flank could be called an overextension. I've flanked an Elefant only to get a main gun crit on a T34.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if it was gone but also think that Relic would have no interest in removing a feature from the game.


If you don't probe out where their dangerous units are before flanking it *is* an over extension, just one you might get away with.
12 Oct 2019, 10:48 AM
#14
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 867 | Subs: 5


I like vehicle crits myself.
Infantry lose models really fast. Vehicles have a much larger health pool.
Well managed vehicles die a lot less. The only equalizer of sorts is the
crits. If you remove all crits, well...

Sure, RNG is annoying.
But if you make all vehicles into big bricks with no RNG,
then the're just straight up superior to infantry with no risk.

Crits are more realistic.
Otherwise, as he said, might as well play Starcraft.

I ENJOY the unpredictability.
12 Oct 2019, 10:51 AM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

No, if I wanted to play starcraft, I would play starcraft (predictability of everything).
12 Oct 2019, 11:11 AM
#16
avatar of oootto92

Posts: 177

Main weapon crits are something we know of and only affect vehicles that are already on their last breath. Sure in 1v1 tank brawl situation this dooms your tank to lose, but it does not differ anyway from you bouncing your last shot and enemy penetrating with his. Just more flavourful way to introduce RNG. If you don't like RNG then yee can giid out.

Abandoned vehicles on the other hand are bullshit and should be removed as the effect is far too great and can simply win the game for one side.
12 Oct 2019, 11:42 AM
#17
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1602 | Subs: 3

Just as bad a mechanic as abandon, which should atleast require some actual investment to recrew (like half the fuel cost).

Or 50% chance for models to die when a halftrack explodes, which should be just health damage instead of a diceroll into an early GG (that's also skewed against smaller squads).

Or plane crashes, which should be just there for aesthetic reasons.

Main gun crit should be changed to a main gun stun at most.

IMO, the less an RNG mechanic requires input from your opponent, the less influence it should have on the game. It's why I'm all for RNG mechanics in small arms fights or in vehicle fights, like penetrating, missing, bouncing etc, but not the above kind of mechanics.
12 Oct 2019, 13:13 PM
#18
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

If you know there's a 5% chance for main gun crit then why exactly cant you factor it in?


IIRC any damage than makes a vehicle go to 25% or lower can proc a main gun destroy.

This means that on any medium tank, after getting hit twice by most tanks/AT guns, you can suddenly get the crit to affect you by any following shot.

Reduce the threshold lower than 25% and it's suddenly FAIR to get crit by being really on low health and not just roaming around with a tank at half health.


Low % chances are bad for the game, specially when the amount of rolls been done are low (vehicle combat, certain abilities) and the difference in the effects is great.

Take ram as a mechanic. You can count on the stun 100%. You can expect to either penetrate and do engine damage. Then you have like 10% for a super crit which will piss off any player on the other side. If the guide is up to date, 2% main gun destroy, 3% immobilize and 5% heavy engine damage.
How would i fix it? Outside of a heavy ram rework, the only guaranteed crit should be engine damage. Main gun destroy only procs when ramming frontally and the tank gets lower than 15% at a 50% chance to proc (on top of engine damage). Heavy engine damage procs when rammed from behind and the tank ends up below 15% (same 50% chance after pen).



12 Oct 2019, 13:26 PM
#19
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



Randomness makes the game less repetitive. You have to react to each and every situation differently.

If I wanted to play a game based purely off of mechanical skill I'd play starcraft.

Tbh I'd prefer more crit shenanigans like the original COH.


This, RNG is coh and its what makes watching and playing it fun.

Go watch that vonivan compilation on the homepage and then imagine how BORING it would be without the crazy RNG that goes on every once and a while. It would just be some clone RTS with no soul

12 Oct 2019, 13:51 PM
#20
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1263

Yes i agree i like the rng. The main gun crit and abandon included.

It makes the game exciting to play and watch. Like @superhansfan said its a big part of the soul of coh2.
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