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russian armor

Give universal carrier the 222 treatment

14 Oct 2019, 07:03 AM
#21
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 356

Someone above talk about giving UC ability to throw grenade, this make me think, what if UC has pyrotechnics supplies upgrade identical to that of tommy ? Pop a red marker to trigger barrage from base ?
14 Oct 2019, 07:06 AM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13674 | Subs: 7


I thought it was pretty obvious that making a unit doctrinal doesnt mean a nerf

I'd call extreme limitation to accessibility a nerf.



simply because that will cause a bad stock unit to become a good doc unit, it also means a revamp on the remaining stock units and in the end UKF receives 3-5 buffs for a simple stock/doc exchange.

To which units?
Tommies I guess, because vickers most certainly isn't offensive anti garrison unit.

UKF not having stock flamer is not a disadvantage if there are other tools to deal with the same problem, garrisons and HMGs. But of course, its simply easier for some players to rely on copypasta and repeat the same tactics instead of learning new tricks...


So unlock free flame nades for tommies?
You're literally removing their only anti garrison asset and giving nothing in return.

But the grass is greener always, always on the other side.
And its far easier to copy the neighbors homework istead of coming up with fresh new ideas.
That is pretty obvious if anyone asks me...

If you want to copy paste other factions solutions, why even have more then 2 mirrored factions at all?
14 Oct 2019, 12:38 PM
#23
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 95


something, something, something... copypasta ...


What Katitof said (I could not have said it better myself).

If the WASP is removed to doctrine, RE's have to get stock flamers in compensation and Pyro sections have to get a smoke barrage as well. Are those the buffs you were contemplating?
14 Oct 2019, 15:36 PM
#24
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1637

I meant to leave an open room for those most interested in buffing UKF in return of making wasp a doctrinal unit. Katitof has been a long time pessimist, especially when it comes to SU and UKF.

Tummies could use a smoke howitzer barrage and I was who started a thread about it, if both howitzers are online from the start of the match and adjust their costs and cooldown there is no need for wasps.

Like OKW has to pay muni constantly for unit preservation until t1, UKF could pay for garrison clearing until RE come online and carry flamethrowers if people really want to.

My point is to keep factions unique and useful with different tools instead of the same stuff cloned over factions. The game doesnt mimic real warfare, currently it's more related to rock paper scissors with more steps and a clock.
15 Oct 2019, 02:38 AM
#25
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 95

Tummies could use a smoke howitzer barrage...


My tummy can fire a barrage out the back that can clear a room instantly...
Maybe the UKF could receive Fart grenades as compensation for losing their only non-doc flamer.

keep factions unique...


Well, the WASP is actually pretty unique - a T0 single-flame vehicle that has to turn to aim.
15 Oct 2019, 02:57 AM
#26
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1637

Wasp is not unique, it's a t0 stock hetzer with paper armor
15 Oct 2019, 07:48 AM
#27
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 95

Well, Fart grenades would be unique [instant de-garrison; 30 seconds before re-entry allowed] but, that doesn't mean I want to see them added to the game.

Besides, didn't your mother ever tell you to leave WASP's alone; you'll get a nasty sting.
15 Oct 2019, 07:50 AM
#28
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 484 | Subs: 1

Making the Wasp doctrinal would be interesting if you swapped it with the flamethrower from the doctrines that have that. Should be easy, since this would give the same anti garrison utility from one unit to another, doctrinal vs nondoctrinal. It would give UKF a decent non-doctrinal CQB type unit in the form of 5 man, flamethrower Royal Engineer squads and also allow the Wasp to be made more powerful as a stand alone unit since it would be locked behind a doctrine.
15 Oct 2019, 07:54 AM
#29
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 95

The RE's would need smoke cover to get close enough to use their flamers. The fixed mortar pit can't move to where it's needed like other factions mortars can. Hence the need to add non-doc smoke to UK infantry as well.
15 Oct 2019, 08:20 AM
#30
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 249

Wasp is not unique, it's a t0 stock hetzer with paper armor


Well even if that were true and it's not, the lack of fuel cost and timing combined with the above differences would unique enough. It also lacks an mg as wasp and has a self heal.
18 Oct 2019, 14:01 PM
#31
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6241 | Subs: 1

Guess one could try another approach for the Wasp:
One could make it a separate vehicle instead of an upgrade and move the DOT damage to vet 1 ability or completely remove it.

Then the unit could have its cost and timing adjusted to act more like a flamer engineer then a vehicle that has to turn as many enemy unit as it can into a crisp before being obliterate by vehicles.

(one could make self repair cost a bit more the Faust but remove engine critical first after a couple of seconds)
18 Oct 2019, 14:05 PM
#32
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2658

Increasing the WASP's health would make the 222 take a little longer to kill it. It'd still get splattered by medium armour up.

Maybe a smoke canister instead, unlocked after either the WASP or Vickers is purchased?

That'd help the UC to survive throughout the whole game, and early on it you could use it to blind MGs, something UKF desperately needs now it can't just overwhelm everything with the Great Section Horde.
18 Oct 2019, 14:06 PM
#33
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 14:01 PMVipper
Guess one could try another approach for the Wasp:
One could make it a separate vehicle instead of an upgrade and move the DOT damage to vet 1 ability or completely remove it.

Then the unit could have its cost and timing adjusted to act more like a flamer engineer then a vehicle that has to turn as many enemy unit as it can into a crisp before being obliterate by vehicles.

(one could make self repair cost a bit more the Faust but remove engine critical first after a couple of seconds)


if we make wasp a stand alone vehiche, it will fit perfecly in royal engineer regiment as 2 CP wwith a fuel cost, then royal engineer can use stock falme upgrade to replace.
18 Oct 2019, 14:08 PM
#34
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 220 | Subs: 1



So, remove the UKF's only non-doc flame unit... yeah, maybe when all other factions lose their non-doc flame units too.

Maybe all you wehraboos should stop trying to nerf the UKF into non-existence.


Because OKW has so many non-doctrinal flamer units... you alles fanboys should play some axis to get a grip of the game.
18 Oct 2019, 14:11 PM
#35
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6241 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 14:05 PMLago
Increasing the WASP's health would make the 222 take a little longer to kill it. It'd still get splattered by medium armour up.

Maybe a smoke canister instead, unlocked after either the WASP or Vickers is purchased?

That'd help the UC to survive throughout the whole game, and early on it you could use it to blind MGs, something UKF desperately needs now it can't just overwhelm everything with the Great Section Horde.

Imo the 222 is a separate issue. The 222 imo should be delayed and have better armor (with an adjusted cost) and/or have it use AP rounds option. (Acting a bit more like an light vehicle than a glass cannon)

As counter to micro light vehicle Ostheer could have access to (redesigned more penetration less DPS) 221 that would act a soft counter to them a similar cost. Unit could even be available from t1.

Giving access to wasp earlier (maybe at a cost of 220 40 MU and maybe a bit longer built time to prevent spam) would allow UKF to clear garrison.
18 Oct 2019, 14:18 PM
#36
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2658

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 14:08 PMGarrett
Because OKW has so many non-doctrinal flamer units... you alles fanboys should play some axis to get a grip of the game.


OKW's mainline infantry is a non-doctrinal garrison clearer.
18 Oct 2019, 14:19 PM
#37
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13674 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 14:08 PMGarrett


Because OKW has so many non-doctrinal flamer units... you alles fanboys should play some axis to get a grip of the game.


What do volks throw for muni?
18 Oct 2019, 14:27 PM
#38
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3118 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 14:19 PMKatitof


What do volks throw for muni?

Balance.
18 Oct 2019, 14:30 PM
#39
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 14:08 PMGarrett


Because OKW has so many non-doctrinal flamer units... you alles fanboys should play some axis to get a grip of the game.


you only need 1 unit for each role if it is effective, so, Why must OKW have a flamer if their mainline already can clear garrison and deni cover ?

Have you ever play OKW since volk lose their shreck ?
19 Oct 2019, 02:08 AM
#40
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 14:08 PMGarrett


Because OKW has so many non-doctrinal flamer units... you alles fanboys should play some axis to get a grip of the game.

Literally has flames on their mainline infantry that unlock for free 3 minutes into the game but ok.
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