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Fallshirmjager vs Shock Troopes vs Paratroopers

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23 Sep 2019, 16:52 PM
#1
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 71

I think these are the main elite Anti-infantry units which has insane dps compared to other elite units (stromtroopers & rangers can be strong Anti-tank so not included in this comparison).

Since most of the ally players are complaining falls are OP now, I think they scale pretty well when they face Shock troopes and Paratroopers. There is a video made by tigthrope where vet 3 LMG Paratroopers and vet 0 shock troops beat Fallshirmjagers pretty easily, link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j7trxUXVN8

This means there are units that can counter them pretyy well at their current state.
23 Sep 2019, 17:02 PM
#2
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 456

Yes, tests where LMG Paras (120mun upgrade) beat Falls at long range and Shocks beat Falls at short range (though they do lose once).

I think everyone has seen this video already and it has already been discussed to death in the main thread.
23 Sep 2019, 18:13 PM
#3
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 172

Hey just to note try comparing airborne guards with 100 munitions upgrade with vetted upgraded falls and perhaps you might find yourself surprised.
23 Sep 2019, 18:15 PM
#4
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 172

I tested them pre patch. Falls against airborne guards. And they were pretty good match back then. Vet 5 falls were still eating vet 3 airborne guards. Imagine what will be the situation now.

The high dps might still be acceptable but falls get the advantage of faust which no other elite infantry has. Thats why they are unbalanced right now at 320 mp and at 2cp.
24 Sep 2019, 01:34 AM
#5
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 71

I tested them pre patch. Falls against airborne guards. And they were pretty good match back then. Vet 5 falls were still eating vet 3 airborne guards. Imagine what will be the situation now.

The high dps might still be acceptable but falls get the advantage of faust which no other elite infantry has. Thats why they are unbalanced right now at 320 mp and at 2cp.


Yea agree that their faust ability makes them more potent, but those gaurds you mentioned have smoke nades which comes very handy. MG spam against falls are very effective too.
24 Sep 2019, 04:00 AM
#6
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2690

While they all have great DPS, they kinda all fill different roles and are hard to compare IMO.

Just to throw it out there what I find annoying is when people have blobs of 3+ falls in teamgames. I don't usually see that with shocks or paras it seems, and the latter two seem to bleed more manpower since they're six men (which is obviously a huge advantage in survivability to be fair).
24 Sep 2019, 06:03 AM
#7
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 16:52 PMVIGNASH
I think these are the main elite Anti-infantry units which has insane dps compared to other elite units (stromtroopers & rangers can be strong Anti-tank so not included in this comparison).

Since most of the ally players are complaining falls are OP now, I think they scale pretty well when they face Shock troopes and Paratroopers. There is a video made by tigthrope where vet 3 LMG Paratroopers and vet 0 shock troops beat Fallshirmjagers pretty easily, link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j7trxUXVN8

This means there are units that can counter them pretyy well at their current state.


Now give shocks and paras fausts stealth and a nukenade... ohh and make shocks infiltrate and increase their long range damage
24 Sep 2019, 09:06 AM
#8
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 625

its not about falls in a vacuum.

dial it back and see okw as a whole, does the army truly need a high DPS AI unit in the 1st place?

volks already cover that role and get more effective with vet, obers do that too without doctrines and okw never had problems dealing with allied infantry in the 1st place.

compare that to soviets/USF, conscripts, while useful, are just not able to match pound for pound against volks/sturm. penals are great but volks are still able to match them in equal numbers and at range. not to mention penals are more expensive.

rifles are the same, volks do well enough against them and have enough tools to stop a rifle push through smart placement and better cover. rifles cant charge them because STG upgrades, whoever breaks cover 1st generally loses.

so allies generally need elite infantry to supplement their base infantry to match OKW early game. but when falls come into play, allied infantry cannot hope to match the sheer amount of DPS going their way. HMG helps but its a double edged sword. the DPS that falls+volks can put out pretty much able to melt HMG while engaging head on as well as most allied HMG do not pin fast enough to negate incoming DPS.

which brings us to where we are now. it only gets worse once PZ4 rolls in, or god forbid, walking stukas that wipes the crap out of infantry.

TL:DR: okw can field so much anti infantry DPS via volks/falls so early that allied units arent durable enough to weather it and melt.
24 Sep 2019, 09:26 AM
#9
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 345

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 09:06 AMwongtp
its not about falls in a vacuum
TL:DR: okw can field so much anti infantry DPS via volks/falls so early that allied units arent durable enough to weather it and melt.


Laughs in Shocktroops, Guards, Paratroopers, Rangers...

(Go on and tell me they are inferior to Falls and I will only Falls are just cheap and nothing else)
24 Sep 2019, 09:34 AM
#10
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 09:26 AMJilet


Laughs in Shocktroops, Guards, Paratroopers, Rangers...

(Go on and tell me they are inferior to Falls and I will only Falls are just cheap and nothing else)


Tell me... are any of those cheap stealthy and have a nukenade plus snare?

And afaik paras and guards lose to falls at vet 0 while shocks and rangers lose to falls at a distance

Falls should be compared to commandoes which they SIGNIFICANTLY OUTCLASS
24 Sep 2019, 09:37 AM
#11
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 06:03 AMgbem


Now give shocks and paras fausts stealth and a nukenade... ohh and make shocks infiltrate and increase their long range damage
member to make them 4 men
24 Sep 2019, 09:39 AM
#12
avatar of elnur009

Posts: 30

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 09:34 AMgbem


Tell me... are any of those cheap stealthy and have a nukenade plus snare?

And afaik paras and guards lose to falls at vet 0 while shocks and rangers lose to falls at a distance

Falls should be compared to commandoes which they SIGNIFICANTLY OUTCLASS


sry my english is bad, maybe i got it wrong
falls outclass commandos?
24 Sep 2019, 09:39 AM
#13
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

member to make them 4 men


Ok now give me my long range infiltrating cheap shocks with stealth a nukenade and a faust
24 Sep 2019, 09:41 AM
#14
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341



sry my english is bad, maybe i got it wrong
falls outclass commandos?


Yes falls outclass commandos
24 Sep 2019, 09:42 AM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 09:39 AMgbem


Ok now give me my long range infiltrating cheap shocks with stealth a nukenade and a faust

Falls are not infiltration unit, they are air dropped.
24 Sep 2019, 09:43 AM
#16
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 625

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 09:26 AMJilet


Laughs in Shocktroops, Guards, Paratroopers, Rangers...

(Go on and tell me they are inferior to Falls and I will only Falls are just cheap and nothing else)


trying running shocks into PPSH effective range vs volks/falls focus fire, same with rangers with thompsons. then observe when shocks/rangers melt.

guards are generalists but master of none, they do not output enough dps to stop an entire okw onslaught alone. now try focus fire on guards at max range while guards get conscripts/penal supporting fire lol.

paras are the only real contender for falls. again, try focus firing.

the whole point is, supporting units that OKW can bring to the field. because almost every infantry can output so much ranged DPS with vet and upgrades. and when falls enter the fray, its overkill.
24 Sep 2019, 09:44 AM
#17
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 09:42 AMVipper

Falls are not infiltration unit, they are air dropped.


Afaik i read that they had trouble making the IL2 paradrop airborne guards soo they made em infiltrate as compensation...
24 Sep 2019, 10:17 AM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 09:44 AMgbem


Afaik i read that they had trouble making the IL2 paradrop airborne guards soo they made em infiltrate as compensation...

And yet they failed to balance them as infiltration units and so they spawn with full squad members and elite weapons contrary to Infl. commandos/stormtroppers.
24 Sep 2019, 10:25 AM
#19
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13780 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 10:17 AMVipper

And yet they failed to balance them as infiltration units and so they spawn with full squad members and elite weapons contrary to Infl. commandos/stormtroppers.

What elite weapons?
Guards mosin is comparable to grens kar/storms kar.
DPs and PPSHs are upgrades that take resources and time.
Infiltration commandos spawn with their STENs and there were recently talks to make them cheaper due to spawning without one man.
24 Sep 2019, 10:32 AM
#20
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 10:25 AMKatitof

What elite weapons?
Guards mosin is comparable to grens kar/storms kar.
DPs and PPSHs are upgrades that take resources and time.
Infiltration commandos spawn with their STENs and there were recently talks to make them cheaper due to spawning without one man.

Play the game than you learn that:
1) airdrop guards come with SVT and not Guards mosin.

2) Infiltration commandos commandos spawn with minus -2 entities

Now pls stop this silly crusade of trying to prove me wrong. You fail miserably and only manage to make a fool of yourself.
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