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russian armor

Easy 8 is useless, should get some improvement.

19 Sep 2019, 02:55 AM
#1
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 575

I am not sure what the point of the Easy 8 is exactly. But lately it just doesn't do anything well. It's absolutely terrible against infantry sqauds and it's decent against vehicles but not nearly as good as a Jackson and it costs almost as much so why even build the thing? It should have HE shells or something like WP shells.
19 Sep 2019, 03:02 AM
#2
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1

The Easy Eight is fine. It’s got good armor, good penetration, good health and a good top MG. It’s a jack of all trades unit that’s better than most too.

It scales really well when used in groups too. It’s not as good at AT compared to a Jackson, and not as good at AI as a 75mm Sherman on HE rounds, but two Easy Eights are better than one Sherman and one Jackson at both AI and AT when used together.
19 Sep 2019, 03:14 AM
#3
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 575

The Easy Eight is fine. It’s got good armor, good penetration, good health and a good top MG. It’s a jack of all trades unit that’s better than most too.

It scales really well when used in groups too. It’s not as good at AT compared to a Jackson, and not as good at AI as a 75mm Sherman on HE rounds, but two Easy Eights are better than one Sherman and one Jackson at both AI and AT when used together.


If there is one thing I've learned its that this game doesn't do "jack of all trades" units very well at all. The best "jack of all trades" unit is probably the regular Sherman. So, two Easy 8s cost 760 MP and 280 fuel, that's a lot, that's a friggen King Tiger. This is not really a spamable /blobbable vehicle, it's expensive. So needing more than one to be effective points to it's poor design. The Panzer IV is a better example of a good all around unit. It's deadly against infantry and pretty good against most vehiclea (also seems to come out REALLY fast).
rqd
19 Sep 2019, 03:40 AM
#4
avatar of rqd

Posts: 65

I would suggest make it a usf version commet, which has huge advantage over axis mediums.

It can at least creat some late game diversity, now usf just keep building m36s.
19 Sep 2019, 03:44 AM
#5
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1

Consider this situation, you’re playing USF and you just teched Major. What unit do you build first? If you pick a regular Sherman then your opponent can counter it with a P4 one still have a strong anti infantry unit. The P4 usually beats a regular Sherman in a 1v1 so now he has forced you to get a Jackson which he can counter with another P4 because 1 Sherman and 1 Jackson can fight 2 P4s but only if you keep your Sherman on AP ammo while your opponent can be more flexible with his two P4s. So you go Jackson first? Well now that means he can counter a Jackson by just not buying any tanks and instead investing in better infantry to win that way and now your Jackson does nothing except take up resources you could’ve spent on something else.

This is why the Easy Eight is so great. You can go Easy Eight first or after a regular Sherman and have a combo that beats a pair of P4s and can also deal good damage to infantry. Two Easy Eights are even better as they handily bear a pair of P4s and still have good AI power once you kill the P4s where a pair of Jackson’s would be useless once they knock out the tanks they are meant to counter.

TL/DR: Easy Eights are good because they are a way to beat Axis medium tanks that still have a use after they defeat them.
19 Sep 2019, 03:49 AM
#6
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 263

I dunno, the e8 is at least as good and arguably better than the okw panzer 4 for a similar price.
19 Sep 2019, 04:39 AM
#7
avatar of BiggusDickus

Posts: 12

It could definitely use some sort of buff to its anti infantry capability. Even after investing 70muni for the .50 cal upgrade it feels inconsistent relative to the p4.
19 Sep 2019, 04:43 AM
#8
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 701

50cal is better than mg42, for tank upgrade. Imo. So 70muni is better spent on shermans than p4/p5
19 Sep 2019, 07:39 AM
#9
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 263

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 04:43 AMmrgame2
50cal is better than mg42, for tank upgrade. Imo. So 70muni is better spent on shermans than p4/p5


No, the only ranges the M2 upgrade is superior to the mg42 is from 5-15. All other ranges it is worse.

My apologies, I was looking at the pintle for the e8. The standard sherman upgrade is actually quite a bit better than the MG42 upgrade.
ddd
19 Sep 2019, 08:05 AM
#10
avatar of ddd

Posts: 521 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 03:40 AMrqd
I would suggest make it a usf version commet, which has huge advantage over axis mediums.

It can at least creat some late game diversity, now usf just keep building m36s.


This so much. Having 3 versions of shermans that are very similar is bad game design.
19 Sep 2019, 09:06 AM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6405 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 03:14 AMCODGUY

If there is one thing I've learned its that this game doesn't do "jack of all trades" units very well at all. The best "jack of all trades" unit is probably the regular Sherman. So, two Easy 8s cost 760 MP and 280 fuel, that's a lot, that's a friggen King Tiger. This is not really a spamable /blobbable vehicle, it's expensive. So needing more than one to be effective points to it's poor design. The Panzer IV is a better example of a good all around unit. It's deadly against infantry and pretty good against most vehiclea (also seems to come out REALLY fast).

This is a clear case of the "grass is greener".

Easy8 is superior to Panzer J and come at the same cost and is hardly "useless"

In addition Panzer IV is not "pretty good" against vehicles it can fight and win vs meduims (although slower than most of it) but it will probably lose to Sherman 76mm and will be almost useless against anything above it.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 08:05 AMddd


This so much. Having 3 versions of shermans that are very similar is bad game design.

The bad design does not come from the version of Sherman that are not very similar (accept for dozer Sherman and 105mm which is bad design) but the ability of M36 to completely shut down PzIV from range 60. There little reason to built Shermans because there are better investments like double bar riflemen, Scott, M36.
19 Sep 2019, 10:43 AM
#12
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

dude look we can switch with the osther panzer 4 j from tht new commander :snfPeter:
19 Sep 2019, 11:55 AM
#13
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2725

I think the mistake here is using the basic Sherman as a benchmark for medium tank performance.

The HE rounds make it the best stock medium in the game by a country mile. The reason it was never put in UKF Lend Lease is because it'd render the Cromwell and Centaur obsolete.

Compare the Easy Eight to any other stock medium and it stacks up much more favourably.
ddd
19 Sep 2019, 12:24 PM
#14
avatar of ddd

Posts: 521 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 09:06 AMVipper



The bad design does not come from the version of Sherman that are not very similar (accept for dozer Sherman and 105mm which is bad design) but the ability of M36 to completely shut down PzIV from range 60. There little reason to built Shermans because there are better investments like double bar riflemen, Scott, M36.


Why are you comparing jackson to easy8? One is a tank destroyer and other is medium tank. Why you bring double bar riflemen to thread about easy8 being bad unit?

There was similar situation with ostwind being pointless while p4 was in the same tier. They buffed ostwind until it was worth using and upped its price. I suggest doing the same with easy8.
19 Sep 2019, 12:26 PM
#15
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 03:14 AMCODGUY


If there is one thing I've learned its that this game doesn't do "jack of all trades" units very well at all. The best "jack of all trades" unit is probably the regular Sherman. So, two Easy 8s cost 760 MP and 280 fuel, that's a lot, that's a friggen King Tiger. This is not really a spamable /blobbable vehicle, it's expensive. So needing more than one to be effective points to it's poor design. The Panzer IV is a better example of a good all around unit. It's deadly against infantry and pretty good against most vehiclea (also seems to come out REALLY fast).
so what about osther panzer4 j ? it cost the same but it's way worse
19 Sep 2019, 12:35 PM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6405 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 12:24 PMddd


Why are you comparing jackson to easy8? One is a tank destroyer and other is medium tank....

Because Easy8 primary job is to counter tanks and the M36 is simply more cost efficient. That sum up why Shermans are not used although they are some of the most cost efficient tanks in the game probably only behind T-34/85. There are more cost efficient solution in both AI (Scott) and AT (M36).
ddd
19 Sep 2019, 12:42 PM
#17
avatar of ddd

Posts: 521 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 12:35 PMVipper

Because Easy8 primary job is to counter tanks and the M36 is simply more cost efficient. That sum up why Shermans are not used although they are some of the most cost efficient tanks in the game probably only behind T-34/85. There are more cost efficient solution in both AI (Scott) and AT (M36).


So you just agreed with me that easy8 in its current state is pointless. What about doing the same thing they did with ostwind then?
19 Sep 2019, 12:44 PM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6405 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 12:42 PMddd


So you just agreed with me that easy8 in its current state is pointless. What about doing the same thing they did with ostwind then?

How about nerfing M36 accuracy so that it dos not completely shut down PzIV from range 60.

Main difference here was that Oswstind (and Pgs) got powered creeped and become UP. Different problems require different solutions.
ddd
19 Sep 2019, 12:52 PM
#19
avatar of ddd

Posts: 521 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 12:44 PMVipper

How about nerfing M36 accuracy so that it dos not completely shut down PzIV from range 60.

Main difference here was that Oswstind got powered creeped to become UP, different problem require different solutions.


Balance team already nerfed jackson after months of brainstorming, case closed.

Easy8 was good unit only when it was no tech call in. After it was tied to tech it disappeared from the game. Meanwhile panther got reworked to better do its job and is now extremaly common. Solution still applies.
19 Sep 2019, 13:01 PM
#20
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 12:52 PMddd


Balance team already nerfed jackson after months of brainstorming, case closed.

Easy8 was good unit only when it was no tech call in. After it was tied to tech it disappeared from the game. Meanwhile panther got reworked to better do its job and is now extremaly common. Solution still applies.
so is the okw p4 even more trash ?
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