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russian armor

Pak40 death loop buff?

19 Sep 2019, 02:08 AM
#1
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1150

I see alot of asks to help maxim deathloop.

How about pak40 for wehrboo? It is the only 60 range AT, nondoc. I believe it has slowest reposition times and can be hit by various allies nondoc arty units. Allies stronger flanking infantry is more available. It has to supplement against heavy allies armor or better light tanks.

Something like shermans are much better to decrew ATG than P4.

Can we look at helping pak40 here?
19 Sep 2019, 02:49 AM
#2
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

What are you even talking about? Deathloop for a PAK40? That's just called normal run of the mill death.
19 Sep 2019, 02:56 AM
#3
avatar of CombCrab

Posts: 50

All at guns have deathloop, so I don't see why pak40 needs special treatment for having it.
19 Sep 2019, 03:01 AM
#4
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1150

Mainly is because it is wehr only nondoc 60 range unit.

Besides P4 have poor pen
Stug is fixed gun at 50 range.

So pak40 needs more work than allies ATG.
19 Sep 2019, 03:15 AM
#5
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

All at guns have deathloop, so I don't see why pak40 needs special treatment for having it.


Well it's an Axis unit, they always deserve special treatment.
19 Sep 2019, 03:43 AM
#6
avatar of CombCrab

Posts: 50

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 03:01 AMmrgame2
Mainly is because it is wehr only nondoc 60 range unit.

Besides P4 have poor pen
Stug is fixed gun at 50 range.

So pak40 needs more work than allies ATG.


Well, it's true that Wehrmacht doesn't have a 60 range TD, and personally, I would prefer that over the panther, the stug and panther cover all fronts of the vehicular AT department, and while there are vehicles like the m4 Sherman, which can decrew at guns better than most Wehrmacht vehicles(though brummbar and ostwind are quite good), those vehicles lack AT power, so naturally, they are meant to be countered with tanks, rather than AT guns.
rqd
19 Sep 2019, 03:53 AM
#7
avatar of rqd

Posts: 65

Usually pak40 doesn't get decrewed by vehicle 60 range away. Scott is an exception, but you won't use pak to counter it.

ISU and KV-2 can be troublesome, then you will need elephant.

If pak is killed by cqc, it just means you have played badly.
19 Sep 2019, 03:54 AM
#8
avatar of CombCrab

Posts: 50

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 03:15 AMCODGUY


Well it's an Axis unit, they always deserve special treatment.

I don't think all axis units get special treatment, and it's not like allied units don't have any special traits.
19 Sep 2019, 03:56 AM
#9
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 359 | Subs: 1

It should be noted that it is impossible to "fix deathloop" properly for anything on a wheeled carriage - this means all AT guns and Soviet MGs.

Pak40 is already considered the most capable AT gun. It shouldn't be made any more durable than what it currently is, especially if other AT guns don't receive a similar buff.
19 Sep 2019, 03:56 AM
#10
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2948

This thing happens to all at guns, and it isn't the same as maxim death loop. If your at gun is constantly getting shot at, you're doing something wrong anyway.
19 Sep 2019, 04:50 AM
#11
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1150

Im generally fine with live state of pak40. But it is marginal imo, not most capable, in terms of what it has to deal with, and what it can get countered. So if we are exploring help to marginal units, i consider pak40 more urgent than maxim

I don't think getting cqc decrew is fully doing wrong. consider allies are better cqc, much better than Wehr for sure. The amount of decrew chances against it is higher than others ATG.

Then you consider the vet bonus, i believe pak40 got the least. Allies got good vet bonus because at that time, they need to deal with axis heavy. Today, tide has turned against wehr or at least they are not scaling with the changes.

Pak40 is slowest reposition, has got the most counters, has lowest vet bonus and has to supplement wehr weak doc armor against allies armor


19 Sep 2019, 04:55 AM
#12
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 968 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 04:50 AMmrgame2

Pak40 is slowest reposition, has got the most counters, has lowest vet bonus and has to supplement wehr weak doc armor against TD.



Its not, the Zis gun is by far the slowest at gun re-positioning wise. Im also pretty sure the pak 40 and 6 pdr are stats wise basically the same. The only AT gun that outperforms the Pak40 is the USF 57mm.

Also any at gun is countered if you can't use it properly. Also not sure how it has the most counters, every faction in the game has nondoc units that counter static at guns or positions.
19 Sep 2019, 05:30 AM
#13
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 589

This is getting silly real fast. The pak40 wich is absolutly fine is somehow a higher priority then the maxim?

The only that changed for the pak40 is that you can skip t2 now. Because of pgrens and ostwind buffs.

This is trolling on duracell batteries or some one with a terminal case of axis always always up.
19 Sep 2019, 06:36 AM
#14
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1150

I dont see why not. As compared to maxim,
Pak40 is setup as a traditional AT gun. And it is marginally weak for its purpose against current units, for the points i brought up.

Having a little help in deathloop, like better RA vet, will go a longer way. I know all AT have death loop, its pak40 that struggle most with it. Zis has 6 man help already.

I also like suggestions that make it 65 range on vet.
19 Sep 2019, 07:00 AM
#15
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1358 | Subs: 3

19 Sep 2019, 07:20 AM
#16
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 615

Lol, pak 40 is weak, while it cut through all allies stock med like butter, reasonable pen up to churchill and have a vet 1 ability that can stun any vehicle for another shot. Yet, An other special of mrgame2, lady and gen.

Sure, You can have "rapid moving" from 6pdr's vet 1, in exchange for the stun shoot. But you sure will then make an other thread about 6pdr op stun shoot.
19 Sep 2019, 07:45 AM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15450 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 03:01 AMmrgame2
Mainly is because it is wehr only nondoc 60 range unit.

Besides P4 have poor pen
Stug is fixed gun at 50 range.

So pak40 needs more work than allies ATG.

If its 60 range, why do you keep in within 30 range of anything that isn't yours?
19 Sep 2019, 07:53 AM
#18
avatar of jackill2611

Posts: 237

Just a troll thread.
I mean, Maxim has deathloop while retreating, and no AT guns beside pupchen have retreat ability.
19 Sep 2019, 08:26 AM
#19
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1150

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 07:45 AMKatitof

If its 60 range, why do you keep in within 30 range of anything that isn't yours?


Because pak40 is not a vehicle. Your mentioned applies more to vehicle to benefit from 60 range imo.

Pak40 gets death loop on backing off.
19 Sep 2019, 09:03 AM
#20
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15450 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2019, 08:26 AMmrgame2


Because pak40 is not a vehicle. Your mentioned applies more to vehicle to benefit from 60 range imo.

Pak40 gets death loop on backing off.

PaK40 does not have retreat function, therefore it does not have any deathloop.
Anything above that is just pointless honking.
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