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Balance Inconsistencies, some required changes

17 Sep 2019, 12:10 PM
#1
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

My thoughts on factions needing some of these changes.


OKW
-MG34 does not suppress consistently enough
-FHT does not either and it is an underwhelming unit. Buff needed
-Should have snares available already in the beginning. This is the only faction to get AT earliest which dampens their AI early significantly even more than it should. It is really necessary for them to have snares early as they already nerfed most of the early game elements. Nerfs more than stated according to charts. Little has been done to improve mid gameplay in contrast since Battlegroup is in a worse state than before.
-Kubel Vet 1 should be switched with Vet 3. Damage can increase slightly by +2 or 4, its current accuracy is poor and damage is only 4. I mean Universal Carrier can get upgrade and do 11 damage per shot which is far greater in contrast. Price increase to 230 manpower.
-Falls nerf the vet bonuses since that is what makes them OP.


SU
-Maxim deathloop needs fixing and buff suppression
-Conscript 7 man should be available already to purchase when you get T3
-Conscripts Vet 1 should be changed for performance increase instead. Trip fire should already be available Vet 0
-Molotov and Snares for Conscripts should be all in one. It should just costs as much as the snare upgrade altogether.
-Make Conscripts scale and more viable better
-SU76 vet 3 should be 160 damage like Puma Vet 3. Cooldown should be reduced.

USF
-Was buffing Riflemen a good idea? Cuz I thought they were strong already even then OKW early game had been nerfed.
-I dont know if Riflemen buff was even a necessary change. I feel that it was supposed to be either a nerf to Volks or a buff to Riflemen, NOT BOTH. That is why I mentioned early snares for OKW.
-Riflemen should have snares Vet 0 instead of Vet 1. Vet 1 enables them to reload slightly faster maybe.
-Side tech for LT and CT for unlocking lights etc should be cheaper. USF has already a lot of side tech to purchase.
-Scott may need kind of a nerf since it so effective. Maybe reduce range only to a certain extent and in turn reduce the cooldown of abilities.

UKF
-Royal Engineers should be available in the beginning. Their snare should be locked behind the tech of the 2nd base. Purpose is to help in some way counter CQC better.
-New Feature. Able to purchase both side tech for AEC and Bofors but at the cost of "Locking Bolster 5 man squad". If you purchase first "Bolster Squad", you are only allowed then to purchase one of the two.

WEHR
-Grenadiers Vet 1 should be changed for performance increase instead. Med kit should already be available Vet 0
-Make Grens scale and more viable better


These are some things that I think should be changed. Some aspects of it.

17 Sep 2019, 16:16 PM
#2
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1962 | Subs: 3

The HMG 34 has some of the best suppression in the game, only just below the HMG 42 (iirc only 0.3s slower which is ~10% worse). Only the M2HB and DsHK can suppress faster, but they are arguably worse versus medium and heavy cover because of the short bursts.
17 Sep 2019, 18:02 PM
#3
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

The HMG 34 has some of the best suppression in the game, only just below the HMG 42 (iirc only 0.3s slower which is ~10% worse). Only the M2HB and DsHK can suppress faster, but they are arguably worse versus medium and heavy cover because of the short bursts.


HMG34 has undeniably a good "surpression stats" but there are factors which counteract it from surpressing consistently.

It has low damage which is fine but what I find pressing is the consistent breaks it takes from shooting and the short burst duration which makes suppression inevitably bad sometimes.

Not saying it needs buff, more like a fix just to make it more consistent at suppressing only, that is all. Just make burst for longer periods than it does now.

DsHK can surpress definitely faster but it also does well against units in cover, if I am not mistaken. From what I remembered using it last time.
17 Sep 2019, 18:14 PM
#4
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1962 | Subs: 3

It has low damage which is fine but what I find pressing is the consistent breaks it takes from shooting and the short burst duration which makes suppression inevitably bad sometimes.


It has the exact same cooldown stats as the HMG 42. The only real differences between the two is that the HMG 42 has higher ROF (which gives higher suppression) and higher DPS (which doesn't influence suppression).
17 Sep 2019, 20:01 PM
#5
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

MG34 feels more responsive than the MG42 somehow, which is why I prefer it.

Can't find the reason for it in the stats though.
17 Sep 2019, 20:50 PM
#6
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

OKW
-MG34 does not suppress consistently enough


according to some (quite cruide) calculations the MG-34 does quite alot of suppression
https://www.coh2.org/topic/97807/the-maxim-vs-mg42-argument/page/2


-Should have snares available already in the beginning. This is the only faction to get AT earliest which dampens their AI early significantly even more than it should. It is really necessary for them to have snares early as they already nerfed most of the early game elements. Nerfs more than stated according to charts. Little has been done to improve mid gameplay in contrast since Battlegroup is in a worse state than before.


fine but the T0 rakaten needs to be bumped up in timing and made costlier
17 Sep 2019, 21:46 PM
#7
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6313 | Subs: 1

Inconsistencies, not game balance here.
18 Sep 2019, 04:19 AM
#8
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 575

Riflemen definitely needed a buff they were a terrible terrible unit to have to depend on and the worst part of it is that they're really all you get when the game starts so if they suck then the whole faction suffers which it did. They couldn't even consistently kill Volksgrens 1v1 and consistently lost when attacking them behind sandbags.
18 Sep 2019, 05:45 AM
#9
avatar of blancat

Posts: 602

18 Sep 2019, 11:48 AM
#10
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 20:50 PMgbem


according to some (quite cruide) calculations the MG-34 does quite alot of suppression
https://www.coh2.org/topic/97807/the-maxim-vs-mg42-argument/page/2



fine but the T0 rakaten needs to be bumped up in timing and made costlier


You are right about the MG34 surpression being good. It has good stats. I just feel that it does not consistently suppress sometimes.


Now the Raktenwerfer.

Rak should be made available like when the MG34 is accessible, like after 1 base built.

Then snares should be available in the beginning.

Currently, OKW is really sacrificing AI strength on the purchase of Rak early games which really gives Allies now more of a huge distinctive advantage.

Considering now that Rak is a lot more costy now and as well as the slight Volks price increase plus mp start decrease, it affects furthermore unnecessarily their so called "early gameplay".

This even affects negatively to a certain extent their mid game.

Lock Rak behind tech and make snares available in the beginning already. That would be fair imo.
18 Sep 2019, 11:57 AM
#11
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 04:19 AMCODGUY
Riflemen definitely needed a buff they were a terrible terrible unit to have to depend on and the worst part of it is that they're really all you get when the game starts so if they suck then the whole faction suffers which it did. They couldn't even consistently kill Volksgrens 1v1 and consistently lost when attacking them behind sandbags.


Riflemen were good. It is just the unbalance with the MP and the cost efficiency of Volks that made Riflemen feel inferior. Just feel.

Why did Riflemen need a buff anyway?

That I dont quite understand to be honest.
18 Sep 2019, 12:35 PM
#12
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3234 | Subs: 1

Every faction sacrifices AI and manpower to get AT.... It's kind of a core compenent of the game....
18 Sep 2019, 15:55 PM
#13
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 575



Riflemen were good. It is just the unbalance with the MP and the cost efficiency of Volks that made Riflemen feel inferior. Just feel.

Why did Riflemen need a buff anyway?

That I dont quite understand to be honest.


Riflemen in theory were supposed to be superior units to Genadiers and Volksgrenadiers and technically they were just looking at raw stats but in practice that superiority never manifested itself (especially against Volksgrenadiers) until the unit was fully upgraded and vetted very late into the game.

This was due to a combination of game mechanics, unit abilities, and RNG. Riflemen preformance suffered from the weapon rack game mechanic having to retreat to get the upgrade plus along with this you risk the loss of the upgrade as it could lost when dropped and end up in the hands of your enemy. In contrast Volksgrens had the dual STG44 upgrade available without requiring retreat and without being able to be dropped (alson without requiring a side tech). With this it really made no sense for Riflemen to cost significantly more than Volksgres. They did better against Grens but the purchase price for Grens was even lower than Volksgrens so you could still get out blobbed by them.

The other issue was abilities. All Riflmen abilities either require a side tech or vet. Not so with either Grens or Volksgrens. This swung the balance highly in the favor of the other two units.
18 Sep 2019, 17:11 PM
#14
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 143

Some required changes looooooooooool
18 Sep 2019, 23:09 PM
#15
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Every faction sacrifices AI and manpower to get AT.... It's kind of a core compenent of the game....


Kind of.

The point is about OKW is the ratio between AI and AT early gameplay. OKW early would have "4*AI:1*AT" vs "5*AI "(includes clown car USF or as SU) Allies that would dominate even further early game.

Getting a Rak will screw most of the time your combat engagements since you create a huge unnecessary vulnerability gap in the AI department. OKWs infantry are not that great.

Nerf Falls btw.


If I talk about getting an AT later, the ratio wont be that huge an impact nor a difference since you have a lot more infantry/AI units hitting the field, for example "7*AI : 1*AT", you wont notice the difference in AI power as much. Thus the proportionate difference is lesser and of less consequence.

Getting Rak early screws OKW AI significantly. Everything has a huge cost now and an even bigger consequence.

Even getting OKW Sturmpio 70 ammo AT (since its bad) is hardly even a viable option as a form of an AT alternative.

That is the problem. Pretty unbalanced.
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