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The maxim vs mg42 argument

Is the maxim fine
Option Distribution Votes
48%
52%
Is the mg42 fine
Option Distribution Votes
85%
15%
Only wehraboos answer: would you like it if the mg42 had the exact same stats as the maxim
Option Distribution Votes
9%
28%
63%
Total votes: 178
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
16 Sep 2019, 07:55 AM
#1
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Lets end this dumb argument once and for all
16 Sep 2019, 08:11 AM
#2
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1739

I don't mind trying mg42 to be maxim clone as a trial.
At least i can match flanking allies squad with the good repositioning. I wont mind trying to drop allies model faster, reducing their dps some.
16 Sep 2019, 08:14 AM
#3
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 08:11 AMmrgame2
I don't mind trying mg42 to be maxim clone as a trial.
At least i can match flanking allies squad with the good repositioning. I wont mind trying to drop allies model faster, reducing their dps some.


Ps the maxim has the same dps as the 42 when not firing api...
16 Sep 2019, 08:36 AM
#4
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 421 | Subs: 2

Honestly, the only problem I have with Maxim is its absurdly expensive price for what it brings to the table. It should be brought in-line with the other HMG squads, or other HMG squads made more expensive to be in-line with Maxim.

The last patch has done wonders for blob suppression. While it's still weak against single squads, I feel like that would be totally acceptable if the Maxim cost 240 manpower. I'd love a deathloop fix but sadly that's impossible and nothing can really properly compensate for it

A long time ago, Maxim spam was a thing due to normal cost, fast set-up, sprint, and low suppression (meaning you would need more than 1 to have them work in the first place). The price, set-up, and the suppression (at least vs blobs) were all increased since then, and sprint has been removed. Now, it does not noticeably set up faster than Axis HMGs. The whole Maxim Spam strat now is much less viable than Ostheer MG42 spam anyway, since producing nothing but MG42 and Pioneers is rewarded with early HQ Panzergrenadiers. In comparison, Maxim spam wouldn't have elite infantry backing it up, only shitty conscripts until T3 is built. It would also have less suppression and cover less ground.

I see no reason why the community needs to fear Maxim spam in today's meta, and thereby, no reason for the Maxim to remain unreasonably cost-inefficient.
16 Sep 2019, 09:46 AM
#5
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13272 | Subs: 1

Why do keep adding fuel to the fire with things like that:
"Only wehraboos answer: would you like it if the mg42 had the exact same stats as the maxim"
16 Sep 2019, 09:48 AM
#6
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 09:46 AMVipper
Why do keep adding fuel to the fire with things like that:
"Only wehraboos answer: would you like it if the mg42 had the exact same stats as the maxim"


Because some keep on claiming the maxim is OP and the mg42 is UP... therefore a switch in stats in their mind would be valid
16 Sep 2019, 10:06 AM
#7
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Is this a joke thread? What kind of crazy person thinks the maxim is even close to the mg42?
16 Sep 2019, 10:11 AM
#8
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Is this a joke thread? What kind of crazy person thinks the maxim is even close to the mg42?


Dumbasses that play axis only
16 Sep 2019, 10:19 AM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 09:48 AMgbem


Because some keep on claiming the maxim is OP and the mg42 is UP... therefore a switch in stats in their mind would be valid

My point is simply if you accuse others of being "wehraboos" you are probably "Sovietboo" and you are actually accusing other of what you are also doing. Now can we pls stop this non constructive name calling?
16 Sep 2019, 10:32 AM
#10
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

then propose a blanket term to cover the axis only players such as mrgame2 kingsown or ullumulu?
16 Sep 2019, 10:55 AM
#11
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Easy fix.

Make it 4 man, increase suppression.

Really is useless to continue to find a fix around it rather than going with this simplistic concept.

It would be a better MG and Conscripts be more viable support since "merging" would be even more useful and stronger for a stronger performing MG.

Since it would hold ground better and for longer periods than it is now.

If conscripts and maxim reinforce cost is not the same, make it so.
16 Sep 2019, 11:27 AM
#12
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 10:32 AMgbem
then propose a blanket term to cover the axis only players such as mrgame2 kingsown or ullumulu?

You do not actually have to a term. They have names and you have no reason to try to insult them...
If you want to attack something attack the arguments not the people.
16 Sep 2019, 11:41 AM
#13
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

You can’t make the maxim 4 men until you fix the deathloop, which won’t happen.

Only fix there is, which the balance team won’t consider so it’s pointless, is to switch the dshka and maxim since the dshka doesn’t suffer from the deathloop as much and then work from there to balance them.
16 Sep 2019, 12:31 PM
#14
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

DSHK and maxim swap could be interesting. The maxim then could be made into a micro required call in with less problems since the core would be good. The call in maxim, being cheaper than the DSHK and no tech means it could work well with pricey penals, granted it would only really work in defensive tactics as it wouldnt suit lend lease (not that the DSHK does but the maxim less so)
16 Sep 2019, 12:39 PM
#15
avatar of addvaluejack

Posts: 261

I doubt anyone will take the third question seriously.
16 Sep 2019, 12:40 PM
#16
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1217

DSHK and maxim swap could be interesting. The maxim then could be made into a micro required call in with less problems since the core would be good. The call in maxim, being cheaper than the DSHK and no tech means it could work well with pricey penals, granted it would only really work in defensive tactics as it wouldnt suit lend lease (not that the DSHK does but the maxim less so)


Lend lease can use M2.
16 Sep 2019, 21:41 PM
#18
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 08:36 AMKasarov
Honestly, the only problem I have with Maxim is its absurdly expensive price for what it brings to the table. It should be brought in-line with the other HMG squads, or other HMG squads made more expensive to be in-line with Maxim.

The last patch has done wonders for blob suppression. While it's still weak against single squads, I feel like that would be totally acceptable if the Maxim cost 240 manpower. I'd love a deathloop fix but sadly that's impossible and nothing can really properly compensate for it

A long time ago, Maxim spam was a thing due to normal cost, fast set-up, sprint, and low suppression (meaning you would need more than 1 to have them work in the first place). The price, set-up, and the suppression (at least vs blobs) were all increased since then, and sprint has been removed. Now, it does not noticeably set up faster than Axis HMGs. The whole Maxim Spam strat now is much less viable than Ostheer MG42 spam anyway, since producing nothing but MG42 and Pioneers is rewarded with early HQ Panzergrenadiers. In comparison, Maxim spam wouldn't have elite infantry backing it up, only shitty conscripts until T3 is built. It would also have less suppression and cover less ground.

I see no reason why the community needs to fear Maxim spam in today's meta, and thereby, no reason for the Maxim to remain unreasonably cost-inefficient.

I agree with everything said here. I do not think Maxim Spam would be as bad as it used to be if we made the Maxim suppress properly.

When I see troops walk infront of the Maxim and walk away, it makes me frown. If it were any other MG, they'd hit the dirt, but not here.


You can’t make the maxim 4 men until you fix the deathloop, which won’t happen.

4 man Maxim would make it very vulnerable to Rifle Grenades, something that the MG 42 doesn't have to worry about.

Also there's no difference between the Maxim and DShK, both suffer the death loop for the same reason.


Lend lease can use M2.

The only M2's that Russia used were the ones mounted on the vehicles we sent, such as the M5 Half-Track.

____________________________________________________________________________


I attempted to calculate the average suppression of each Machine Gun using the formula Suppression Amount x Rate of Fire Mid x Accuracy Mid. If anyone has one that's better than that, let me know because that formula did not give the correct DPS values that were on the chart, but I think it's still indicative of which number is higher. So here's the higher numbers:

0.14904 - DShK
0.1485 - M2 Browning
0.0875 - MG 34
0.0864 - MG 42
0.064056 - Vickers
0.0468 - Maxim
17 Sep 2019, 09:08 AM
#19
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 11:27 AMVipper

You do not actually have to a term. They have names and you have no reason to try to insult them...
If you want to attack something attack the arguments not the people.


im not attacking anyone... its just a blanket term to cover those with axis biases
17 Sep 2019, 09:23 AM
#20
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1602 | Subs: 3


0.14904 - DShK
0.1485 - M2 Browning
0.0875 - MG 34
0.0864 - MG 42
0.064056 - Vickers
0.0468 - Maxim


MG34 looking pretty gud, especially with that quick & strong vet it gets now. :megusta:

Can you add Bofors, for completion sake?
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