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russian armor

Nerfing Valient Assault and For Mother Russia.

13 Sep 2019, 22:13 PM
#41
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3803


I don't think you understood the point there:
Your response to me saying VA is problematic was, that another ability would be way stronger and even more problematic. This other ability has similar function (DPS buff), but no sprint in combat. You then concluded that all similar abilities (VA, FMR) could be fixed by removing the sprint.

That does not make sense at all.
i though u were saying the 1.25 accuracy was too strong not the sprint
13 Sep 2019, 22:24 PM
#42
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 425

i though u were saying the 1.25 accuracy was too strong not the sprint
Yes
14 Sep 2019, 00:24 AM
#43
avatar of elchino7
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Posts: 6143 | Subs: 1



by range i mean that u don't need to saty at max range . or fight in open field, the bonus accuracy is just as effective at medium, close range


Not really. High accuracy units have diminishing results unless facing opposing units with higher RA bonuses as well.

At range 10> you are ignoring cover.

Let's say Cons 0.7 at that distance (0.76 at 0 which drops up to 0.66 at 25).
x1.5
1.05 accuracy. At vet 0
Vet2: 1.47
Vet3: 1.62

Against Obers 0.7 you get diminishing results from vet 2 and onward. For vet3 you would need to fight units with 0.62 RA or better (like vet3 Obers)
14 Sep 2019, 00:27 AM
#44
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3803

U can shoot on the move when sprint is removed during combat don’t forget that
14 Sep 2019, 03:56 AM
#45
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3012 | Subs: 1

nope they just get better buff for "reasons" cause the argument of more expensive troops makes no sense, u have penals

I thought I made a nice post that spelled out what I meant. Was it not concise enough or are you just cherry picking?

% based buffs improve the base stats
50% of 10 is the same as 25% of 20
This means the units with the lesser stats (in this case Soviet units) despite the higher modifier, improved to less insane levels.

Look at blitz on the panther for example, due to its high mobility blitz on the panther is actually a nerfed version of blitz that is on the p4 because the higher base stats are impacted massively by the same modifier that is acceptable on lower stats.
Same with okw and soviet units.
VA will be buffing things like lmg Obers, falls, stg volks and Sturm pioneers
For mother Russia is effecting primarily conscripts, combat engineers, penals and shocks.
Higher modifier but lower base stats means less overall benifit, even if the relative benifit is higher.

Additionally, losing the sprint in conbat would actually still be a big buff for OKW units due to their long range dps coupled with their FOTM accuracy on the various automatics of the okw would benifit much more than the not so good on the move bolt actions or cqb Smgs. Penals would do alright though.
14 Sep 2019, 08:41 AM
#46
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3803

That logic would make sense if Soviet unit paid more mp for worse units , again what u can’t make up in dps u can in numbers
14 Sep 2019, 08:48 AM
#47
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 425

No Stug, it makes perfect sense.
The main problem of all these abilities is the wipe potential before the opponent can react. If a player does not have time to react and stuff just happens on screen, it's horrible design. That's why there are colored smoke grenades for every single bomb run in the game.

Wiping stuff solely comes down to the DPS output, especially for team weapons where models need to pick up the weapon again if the weapon user dies, meanwhile the unit can't soft retreat.
SOV don't have high DPS output with FMR compared to the VA-Fall/Volk combo.

Players need to be able to react to enemy abilities, and for VA it's often not possible.
14 Sep 2019, 08:54 AM
#48
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 311

No Stug, it makes perfect sense.
The main problem of all these abilities is the wipe potential before the opponent can react. If a player does not have time to react and stuff just happens on screen, it's horrible design. That's why there are colored smoke grenades for every single bomb run in the game.

Wiping stuff solely comes down to the DPS output, especially for team weapons were animations are player that models need to pick up the weapon again, meanwhile the unit can't soft retreat.
SOV don't have high DPS output with FMR compared to the VA-Fall/Volk combo.

Players need to be able to react to enemy abilities, and for VA it's often not possible.


If the same treatment will happen to UKF "Assault" I'm fine with that.
14 Sep 2019, 09:33 AM
#49
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 425

If they're as wipey sure. But you should be fine even if this was not the case. The more balance, the better
14 Sep 2019, 16:44 PM
#50
avatar of Satania McDowell

Posts: 7

Permanently Banned
Nerfing for mother Russia thats already a meme ability will make B4 doctrine literally unplayable and useless since B4 is nothing but hot RNG roll garbage
15 Sep 2019, 20:09 PM
#51
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1331

for mother russia + penals has been soo broken i quit playing sov T1 because i could swamp opponents with ease...simply disgusting...

im down with nerfing for mother russia but counterattack tactics needs a buff to compensate aswell... after all its more of a meme doctrine at this stage...

how about buffing the B4 to be more reliable? or making its "direct fire" option available at vet 0? not entirely sure how to buff counterattack without making it either shitty or OP
15 Sep 2019, 21:38 PM
#52
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 311

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2019, 20:09 PMgbem

how about buffing the B4 to be more reliable? or making its "direct fire" option available at vet 0? not entirely sure how to buff counterattack without making it either shitty or OP


That would be OP IMO. But I think lowering its damage to half of current self and reducing the cooldown by half while also giving it %20ish scatter buff it can be made into both a reliable antiblob and anti emplacement tool.
17 Sep 2019, 13:32 PM
#53
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

It is only OKW and SU doctrines that have these kinds of abilities only right?

Are there any other factions doctrines that have it too?

Imo, these abilities are overkill. They should just be sprint only and no accuracy bonus.
17 Sep 2019, 14:18 PM
#54
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

Remove sprint while in combat, you get double shocks that devower grens and Mg 42 via smoke.
17 Sep 2019, 14:32 PM
#55
avatar of Smiling Tiger

Posts: 206

Does anybody have the stats of the For the Fatherland ability in the Overwatch doctrine? I think it gives movement speed and an RA buff but I don't remember how much, and it only applies to squads who were in friendly territory when the ability is activated.
17 Sep 2019, 19:25 PM
#56
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6143 | Subs: 1

It is only OKW and SU doctrines that have these kinds of abilities only right?

Are there any other factions doctrines that have it too?

Imo, these abilities are overkill. They should just be sprint only and no accuracy bonus.


Sprint abilities or global buffs.

OH: 1-sprint on single squads, or 2-global sprint. 3-Global 25% acc with decap/cap rate.

USF: 1-Fire up (sprint), 2-cover to cover (AoE sprint and smoke arty). 3- Combined arms (requires vehicles nearby)

SU: FHQ inspiration, inspire (which unit does it have it?), FMT

OKW: radio silence (sprint), VA, FTF (RA + sprint on own territory)

UKF: Heroic charge, Hold the line (RA on friendly), Assault, Air ressuply,

I might miss something, some things might have changed. Hard to track everything without up to date things.

https://www.coh2.org/guides/88945/the-coh2-ability-guide-mark-2-0
18 Sep 2019, 12:10 PM
#57
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783



Sprint abilities or global buffs.

OH: 1-sprint on single squads, or 2-global sprint. 3-Global 25% acc with decap/cap rate.

USF: 1-Fire up (sprint), 2-cover to cover (AoE sprint and smoke arty). 3- Combined arms (requires vehicles nearby)

SU: FHQ inspiration, inspire (which unit does it have it?), FMT

OKW: radio silence (sprint), VA, FTF (RA + sprint on own territory)

UKF: Heroic charge, Hold the line (RA on friendly), Assault, Air ressuply,

I might miss something, some things might have changed. Hard to track everything without up to date things.

https://www.coh2.org/guides/88945/the-coh2-ability-guide-mark-2-0


Thanks for giving me the details.;)
18 Sep 2019, 12:40 PM
#58
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3803



Sprint abilities or global buffs.

OH: 1-sprint on single squads, or 2-global sprint. 3-Global 25% acc with decap/cap rate.

USF: 1-Fire up (sprint), 2-cover to cover (AoE sprint and smoke arty). 3- Combined arms (requires vehicles nearby)

SU: FHQ inspiration, inspire (which unit does it have it?), FMT,

OKW: radio silence (sprint), VA, FTF (RA + sprint on own territory)

UKF: Heroic charge, Hold the line (RA on friendly), Assault, Air ressuply,

I might miss something, some things might have changed. Hard to track everything without up to date things.

https://www.coh2.org/guides/88945/the-coh2-ability-guide-mark-2-0
radio silence does not sprint, it just moves faster they can still shoot and move

ukf assault remove sprint during comabat
18 Sep 2019, 13:24 PM
#59
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 874 | Subs: 1


OH: 1-sprint on single squads, or 2-global sprint. 3-Global 25% acc with decap/cap rate.

USF: 1-Fire up (sprint), 2-cover to cover (AoE sprint and smoke arty). 3- Combined arms (requires vehicles nearby)


Assault and Hold & Combined Arms don't change movement speed.


SU: FHQ inspiration, inspire (which unit does it have it?), FMT

OKW: radio silence (sprint), VA, FTF (RA + sprint on own territory)

UKF: Heroic charge, Hold the line (RA on friendly), Assault, Air ressuply,


KV2 and KV8 get inspire at vet 1, not sure if it's sprint or just extra movement speed.

Don't remember if FHQ & Hold the Line change movement speed, not mentioned in guide either.

Radio silence, FTFL, Assault and Resupply are movement buffs, but not sprint (so units can still fire on the move).


I might miss something, some things might have changed. Hard to track everything without up to date things.


There are still certain units that can sprint. Out the top of my head:
- Assault Grenadiers
- Panzerfusiliers (vet 5)
- JLI
- Conscripts
- Captain & Lieutenant (veterancy)

There's also Combined Arms for Panzergrenadiers which gives a modest movement speed buff.
18 Sep 2019, 15:56 PM
#60
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6143 | Subs: 1

Thxfully i said sprint OR global buff. I also didn't know if i should left Command type of buff out of the equation or not. Cause then i probably miss a few of them.

-Sprint is just a type of movement speed buff. I don't think it's needed to specify how much each ability gives.
-I should had specify about commander abilities which gives sprint to units which normally they don't get it, which is the whole point of the thread.
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