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Nerfing Valient Assault and For Mother Russia.

13 Sep 2019, 02:40 AM
#21
avatar of tightrope
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 02:27 AMKirrik

Removing spring wont nerf Falls in any way as they are long ranged squad and removing sprint would also allow them to fire on move with increased accuracy as bonus, that would be a nerf to Shocks and thats it.


Not true. One of the real issues facing these abilities is that after they enter combat they keep charging forwards, completely overwhelming defensive positions such as set up team weapons and units behind cover.
13 Sep 2019, 04:14 AM
#22
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



Not true. One of the real issues facing these abilities is that after they enter combat they keep charging forwards, completely overwhelming defensive positions such as set up team weapons and units behind cover.


Assault grenadiers do exactly that with sprint+infiltration grenades. Yet it suddenly FMR/VA become an issue same time CP2 Obersoldaten aka Falls gotten buffs? Hmmm

Also, if you consider that a problem why USF ability that gives sprint and dropes smoke even exist, it was added literally this summer
13 Sep 2019, 04:32 AM
#23
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 211

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 04:14 AMKirrik


Assault grenadiers do exactly that with sprint+infiltration grenades. Yet it suddenly FMR/VA become an issue same time CP2 Obersoldaten aka Falls gotten buffs? Hmmm

Also, if you consider that a problem why was USF ability that gives sprint and dropes smoke even exist, it was added literally added this summer


For mother Russia was a problem before the Falls buffed. This is just a good time to examine all simular abilties.

Cover to Cover is also area restricted.
13 Sep 2019, 07:02 AM
#24
avatar of Hannibal
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 04:14 AMKirrik


Assault grenadiers do exactly that with sprint+infiltration grenades. Yet it suddenly FMR/VA become an issue same time CP2 Obersoldaten aka Falls gotten buffs? Hmmm

Also, if you consider that a problem why was USF ability that gives sprint and dropes smoke even exist, it was added literally this summer

Assault grenadiere sprint is quite expensive compared to Valiant Assault if you consider the number of units and duration. You also need to time it correctly due to the cooldown. And (biggest factor): there is no DPS boost. And of course an ability can become an issue once the units it effects get buffed. Suggesting something else would be plain stupid.

Does the UsF cover to cover give a DPS boost (can't look it up atm, thought it gave more survivability)? It is also restricted to a narrow area, which ensures that your front line won't get overrun.


I'm all in for reworking these abilities, however I think that FMR and VA should get different treatments, since SOV units are usually not that DPS heavy and mobile like OKW, but win fights by outlasting. Maybe giving SOV a DPS boost and OKW an RA boost could go a long way
13 Sep 2019, 07:06 AM
#25
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3283 | Subs: 1

Let's not forget that the equivalent for USF on paratroops squad equiped with Thompson is a accuracy buff with a speed reduction.
13 Sep 2019, 09:24 AM
#26
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Probably because of the quality of troops it effects. With the lone exception of penals all the Soviet infantry that would benifit from for mother Russia either can't shoot straight (cons) or can't shoot further than their peckers reach (shocks)
nope they just get better buff for "reasons" cause the argument of more expensive troops makes no sense, u have penals
13 Sep 2019, 09:27 AM
#27
avatar of Katitof

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nope they just get better buff for "reasons" cause the argument of more expensive troops makes no sense, u have penals

Boi, do I wonder why.
When it comes to a-moving buffed blob, what's more dangerous?

50% bonus to 8 DPS?
Or 25% bonus to 20+ DPS?

You really think there can be more then 2 penals per every fall/ober with their buffed arrival time in mid/late game where the ability becomes affordable to use?

Volks and cons are somewhat equal when compared with their respective buffs, so no issues here.
13 Sep 2019, 09:30 AM
#28
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 09:27 AMKatitof

Boi, do I wonder why.
When it comes to a-moving buffed blob, what's more dangerous?

50% bonus to 8 DPS?
Or 25% bonus to 20+ DPS?

You really think there can be more then 2 penals per every fall/ober with their buffed arrival time?

Volks and cons are somewhat equal when compared with their respective buffs, so no issues here.
what u can deal in pure dps u can do in number , btw shoock are in that doc
13 Sep 2019, 09:31 AM
#29
avatar of Katitof

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what u can deal in pure dps u can do in number , btw shoock are in that doc


Why have you quoted armadillos post if you didn't even read it?
Why have you quoted my post if you didn't even read it?
Both of your arguments are already covered.
13 Sep 2019, 09:35 AM
#30
avatar of Stug life

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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 09:31 AMKatitof


Why have you quoted armadillos post if you didn't even read it?
Why have you quoted my post if you didn't even read it?
Both of your arguments are already covered.


ur argument does not address the fact u get more HP x squad, so loses less dps

or range , or shock troops

or the fact that it buffs team weapons too
13 Sep 2019, 09:45 AM
#31
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17568 | Subs: 8



ur argument does not address the fact u get more HP x squad, so loses less dps


Do you honestly think penals have HP worth of 2 and a half squad of falls hp?

or range

Does penals shoot at longer range then falls?

or shock troops

Shocks long range dps is relevant how?
You have all reaction time you need, because they are CQC.

or the fact that it buffs team weapons too

Oh yeah, all these buffed maxims, so scary!
13 Sep 2019, 09:50 AM
#32
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 09:45 AMKatitof


Do you honestly think penals have HP worth of 2 and a half squad of falls hp?


Does penals shoot at longer range then falls?


Shocks long range dps is relevant how?
You have all reaction time you need, because they are CQC.


Oh yeah, all these buffed maxims, so scary!


by range i mean that u don't need to saty at max range . or fight in open field, the bonus accuracy is just as effective at medium, close range
13 Sep 2019, 17:36 PM
#33
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 767

I thought For Mother Russia only effects weapon crews (and that the accuracy buff, for instance, does not itself work on the actual maxim MG)
13 Sep 2019, 19:48 PM
#34
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by range i mean that u don't need to saty at max range . or fight in open field, the bonus accuracy is just as effective at medium, close range

The special problem with VA is the units that get buffed, which can deal good mid to long range damage. This leaves your units (especially MGs, which are supposed to hard counter infantry and blobbing) less to no time to react. Even if you react in a split second, you might still lose your MG if the gunner dies early, AT guns are at high risk of being killed since they cannot retreat as well, tanks can get snared since Volks and Falls have Faust. So the only option you have then is to feed your infantry into the OKW blob to buy some more time for the team weapons.

SOV usually can't do that. Only DP28 guards can get this amount of long range DPS and they don't come with the commander. Penals are decent, but not as wipey as Fallschirmjäger. Shocks are very good units, but the fact that they need to close in for a few seconds before they can get their DPS off makes them still vulnerable to MGs or at least have these seconds to hit the retreat button.

To make it clear: I'm not saying that the buffs that VA provides are super over the top, but the current constellation of OKW surely makes it problematic and gives need for a change.
13 Sep 2019, 20:07 PM
#35
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

we all agree sprinting with combat needs to go, but if u think valiant assault is op cause okw has some good long ranged dps, u never tried assault operation of the brits with lmg on every unit, commando have more dps than ober with brens at long range already add the 1.25 bonus and bye bye
13 Sep 2019, 20:46 PM
#36
avatar of Hannibal
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we all agree sprinting with combat needs to go, but if u think valiant assault is op cause okw has some good long ranged dps, u never tried assault operation of the brits with lmg on every unit, commando have more dps than ober with brens at long range already add the 1.25 bonus and bye bye

I never tried that, but that also has nothing to do with the current state of Valiant Assault
13 Sep 2019, 21:06 PM
#37
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

]
I never tried that, but that also has nothing to do with the current state of Valiant Assault
:snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter:

u know it's a better valiant assault with planes for recon right ?

the problem is just sprinting during combat which will hopefully be removed
13 Sep 2019, 21:23 PM
#38
avatar of Hannibal
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:snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter:

u know it's a better valiant assault with planes for recon right ?

the problem is just sprinting during combat which will hopefully be removed


First, that the UKF ability might be broken (could very well be, I don't know) does not at all change the fact that Valiant Assault is highly problematic.
Second, somebody in this thread mentioned that the sprint in that ability would get cancelled once the units enter combat. Is that true or not? If yes, how can removing sprint from Valiant Assault fix it then?

The main problem is insane damage output, since the commander was clearly designed for that. But at the moment it is over the top
13 Sep 2019, 21:25 PM
#39
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



First, that the UKF ability might be broken (could very well be, I don't know) does not at all change the fact that Valiant Assault is highly problematic.
Second, somebody in this thread mentioned that the sprint in that ability would get cancelled once the units enter combat. Is that true or not? If yes, how can removing sprint from Valiant Assault fix it then?

The main problem is insane damage output, since the commander was clearly designed for that. But at the moment it is over the top
yes a good fix would be reomving sprint in combat and making it cheaper

for mother russia just removing the sprint in combat would be enough without decreasing the price considering it give 1,5 more accuracy and buffs team weapons too
13 Sep 2019, 21:29 PM
#40
avatar of Hannibal
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yes a good fix would be reomving sprint in combat and making it cheaper

for mother russia just removing the sprint in combat would be enough without decreasing the price considering it give 1,5 more accuracy and buffs team weapons too

I don't think you understood the point there:
Your response to me saying VA is problematic was, that another ability would be way stronger and even more problematic. This other ability has similar function (DPS buff), but no sprint in combat. You then concluded that all similar abilities (VA, FMR) could be fixed by removing the sprint.

That does not make sense at all.
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