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russian armor

Nerfing Valient Assault and For Mother Russia.

12 Sep 2019, 17:44 PM
#1
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 211

Here are my suggestions:
  • Not allowing shooting on the move.
  • Either sprint duration nerf or only allow out of combat sprint.
  • (experimental) Makes it area of effect only like the USF Cover to Cover ability instead of an map wide effect.


I'm not trying to follow Relic's path of triple nerfing or triple buffing so let's just take 2/3 suggestions into account.

My rationale is as followed.

Shocks (and other supporting infantry) + Mother Russia is BS.

Current Falls (and other supporting infantry) + Valient Assault is BS

Unlike Combined arms, there's no conidtion for the bonuses given by the two abilities. Once you spend the resources it's applied automatically without a second thought. Once the sprinting starts the party doesn't stop. Unless you have over lapping arcs of MGs and minefields good luck stopping the bodies smashing into your front lines at high volicity like some kind of rocket strapped Bullet Bill. On top of that, all sprinting ifnantry gets combat bonuses. Which turns Bullet Bill into a missile guided mother fucker.


Let's look at some other combat bonus or map wide bonus abilities from commanders. Radio Silence now has a semi sprint. They can fire on the move and move fast but I don't think they get a combat bonus. Combined arms obviously has very specific conditions for being used. If there's no vehicles nearby you can't do shit. The brits have that one cover tactics ability (I totally forgot its name) that only gives combat bonuses not sprint.

Oh and both Falls and Shocks gets smoke grenades as well.


I'll have to say that currently Falls are slightly better (or worse depending on which side you're playing lol) because of their long range performance over shocks. However Counter Attacks Doctrine does come with B4 which is memes and dreams right now.

To conclude, both abilies (and perhaps all sprinting abilities) should be looked at under a careful eye and reworked.

Edit: Forgot about Assault Operations which already have sprint out of combat.




12 Sep 2019, 17:47 PM
#2
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

don't forget assault operation
12 Sep 2019, 17:48 PM
#3
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2543 | Subs: 4

The british assault from royal commando regiment does give both bonuses(+ recon), but the sprint gets cancelled if they are in combat. I am fine if they remove the sprint while you are in combat like it was planned in a previous patch already
12 Sep 2019, 17:50 PM
#4
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

but do give something back like a recon pass (the circle one) or it will be just a straight worse assault operation
12 Sep 2019, 17:52 PM
#5
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2543 | Subs: 4

but do give something back like a recon pass (the circle one) or it will be just a straight worse assault operation


Could also just reduce the price by 10 or something.

They should also standardize the accuracy multiplier to 1.25. For Mother Russia still gives +50% accuracy for whatever reason
12 Sep 2019, 17:52 PM
#6
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 211

Thank you Stug Life, will edit to add Assault operations.
12 Sep 2019, 18:04 PM
#7
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Somebody listened. Good. Thanks @NorthFireZ for suggesting these changes.

That are indeed toxic.

Definitely changes we need.
12 Sep 2019, 18:21 PM
#8
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Mother Russia doesn't allow shooting on the move, nor does Valiant Assault I thought? Not sure about the UKF one.

BTW the new 'radio silence' in spec ops, that grants 20% movement speed, does allow shooting on the move, so add that to the list.
12 Sep 2019, 18:24 PM
#9
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Mother Russia doesn't allow shooting on the move, nor does Valiant Assault I thought? Not sure about the UKF one.

BTW the new 'radio silence' in spec ops, that grants 20% movement speed, does allow shooting on the move, so add that to the list.


I can't remember how many speed instances there are but:

You can't shoot while sprinting.
You can shoot while moving slightly faster.
12 Sep 2019, 18:36 PM
#10
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5268



Could also just reduce the price by 10 or something.

They should also standardize the accuracy multiplier to 1.25. For Mother Russia still gives +50% accuracy for whatever reason

Probably because of the quality of troops it effects. With the lone exception of penals all the Soviet infantry that would benifit from for mother Russia either can't shoot straight (cons) or can't shoot further than their peckers reach (shocks)
12 Sep 2019, 19:04 PM
#11
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Just at the current moment. Make it all come later by 3 or 4 extra CPs as a temporary solution.

Until it can be actually resolved and decided
12 Sep 2019, 19:52 PM
#12
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2543 | Subs: 4


Probably because of the quality of troops it effects. With the lone exception of penals all the Soviet infantry that would benifit from for mother Russia either can't shoot straight (cons) or can't shoot further than their peckers reach (shocks)


what do you mean with cons? Cons have moderate to high accuracy but bad rate of fire. And if you take penals and cons, you already have all nondoc mainline units that soviets have...
12 Sep 2019, 20:47 PM
#13
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2527 | Subs: 2



what do you mean with cons? Cons have moderate to high accuracy but bad rate of fire. And if you take penals and cons, you already have all nondoc mainline units that soviets have...

He obviously meant that Cons don't have high DPS, so buffing them with +50% acc is something else as buffing All-range Fallschirmjäger and Volksgrenadiere (although it's just 25%), which can then quickly chew through your infantry
12 Sep 2019, 21:12 PM
#14
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5268



what do you mean with cons? Cons have moderate to high accuracy but bad rate of fire. And if you take penals and cons, you already have all nondoc mainline units that soviets have...

Exactly. The Soviet core infantry is lesser than the okw core infantry, okw with valiant assault will be effecting sturms, stg volks, lmg Obers and falls all of whom are some of the best fighters in their catagory and all of whom have automatics. 1 shot at 150% accuracy vs 12 at 125% sort of thing. The 50% sort of makes it worthwhile considering what it is effecting where 25% wouldn't and for OKW 25 is great and 50 would be broken as all hell.

Not saying fmr couldn't use a change, but it should get something else
12 Sep 2019, 21:15 PM
#15
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 890

I wouldn't mind if all this abilities would have an area of effect instead of beeing global, if you adjust their cost accordingly. Although I don't think any of these three abilities is a game breaker.

You have to take their timing into account (CtC and VA has 4 CP requirement, FMR has 6 CP requirement).

CtC and VA are much more suited for early aggression as FMR. FMR buffs Shocks and AT bomb penals at the point of the game when many squads run around armed with long range upgraded weaponry. Its an ability to minimize your casualties when advancing at enemy firing positions or to pull off a quick flank. You have to smoke those MGs in addition of course or you won't get far.
12 Sep 2019, 21:44 PM
#16
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2543 | Subs: 4


Exactly. The Soviet core infantry is lesser than the okw core infantry, okw with valiant assault will be effecting sturms, stg volks, lmg Obers and falls all of whom are some of the best fighters in their catagory and all of whom have automatics. 1 shot at 150% accuracy vs 12 at 125% sort of thing. The 50% sort of makes it worthwhile considering what it is effecting where 25% wouldn't and for OKW 25 is great and 50 would be broken as all hell.

Not saying fmr couldn't use a change, but it should get something else


Hmm whenever I use FMR on 2-3 penals, they wreck face and it seems like every single bullet hits
12 Sep 2019, 21:49 PM
#17
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

I think armadillo is underestimating that having higher damage rifles like the SVT and Conscript Mosin Nagants, both which have higher accuracy vet backing them at later levels of veterancy, helps them bypass cover and immediately pick off models, especially when 6 guys hit a single model at once.

On both abilities, the best place to start would be to probably kill the sprint when one joins combat.
12 Sep 2019, 22:02 PM
#18
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5268



Hmm whenever I use FMR on 2-3 penals, they wreck face and it seems like every single bullet hits


Absolutely disgusting with penals, they are the sole exception though imo. Shocks don't have the range to really exploit it (although the sprint does them extremely well) and cons don't have the ROF to make great use of it. Not saying it's not a great ability, just reaffirming that having it on automatics that you don't need to stab the enemy with improves it further at a lower value than single shots do.

I think armadillo is underestimating that having higher damage rifles like the SVT and Conscript Mosin Nagants, both which have higher accuracy vet backing them at later levels of veterancy, helps them bypass cover and immediately pick off models, especially when 6 guys hit a single model at once.

On both abilities, the best place to start would be to probably kill the sprint when one joins combat.

I'm not saying that it is bad, just that I can see why the guys shooting 5 bullets in 20 seconds have a higher modifier than the ones outing out 30 in the same time are.
Its important to not that when FMR is available Soviet lack any concentrated DPS while the FG42s are absolute beasts and the lmg34 is as great as ever.

The good and the bad about rifles is the volley fire. Sure you might all hit the same target, but I can't even tell you how often I've seen bolt action infantry simply not shoot for a crucial time (like an enemy crossing neg cover) and it doesn't matter if they get 10000% more accuracy if they don't have the ROF to really make anything of it

Perhaps changing the accuracy bonus to a cooldown bonus or something that makes more sense with the weapons Soviet have access to and also make it more unique to valiant assault so we don't have the misconception of comparing them directly against one another.
13 Sep 2019, 01:11 AM
#19
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 24

Yeah removing sprint when they are in combat would be nice
13 Sep 2019, 02:27 AM
#20
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

Yeah removing sprint when they are in combat would be nice

Removing spring wont nerf Falls in any way as they are long ranged squad and removing sprint would also allow them to fire on move with increased accuracy as bonus, that would be a nerf to Shocks and thats it.
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