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Fallschirmjäger is very OP!

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6 Oct 2019, 02:26 AM
#401
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810



Yes you said nerf falls, so I said buff the commander. It’s not hard to follow.

Unless you think the commander itself besides falls is strong, in which case I’m just gonna laugh.



No further changes are required except adding concrete bunkers to heavy fortification (2cp)
6 Oct 2019, 08:06 AM
#402
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


To ask for something more here is just a whining

To begin with the whole thread is a long-multi layered-whine about falls. To ironically call someone else of whining is beyond acceptable now.

Also, there is no manual that forces units to either have snare or camouflage, of course a shorter snare range will force players to think better how to use falls, thats a win-win situation because axis learn to play and allied players will see less often falls bad and cheesy plays
6 Oct 2019, 08:08 AM
#403
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

I'd rather change the faust with demo charge. Fits better thematically and will be more useful for behind the lines distruption.
6 Oct 2019, 08:54 AM
#404
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

88 in coh1 was cool. Shame it's not with us any more.
6 Oct 2019, 13:03 PM
#405
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281

Im sick of this falls spam cheese. Please don't say l2p. Cause they keep on annihilating my soviet infantry. And specialist infantry like shocks and guards with dp upgrades. They also have snares. So yeah. Also come at 2 cp. Cost 340. Yeah soviets are fucked.

If i may ask why do shocks and guards cost 360 then? Why not standardize the cost? 6 men? Soviets die quicker. Idk y. But they do.
6 Oct 2019, 13:09 PM
#406
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I think the issue with Falls is camouflage, which is an issue with all camouflaged units since there is no way for them to be detected unless a unit gets too close to them or you use flares. To that end, I think each faction should get designated units that can spot camouflaged units from double the distance of normal ones.

Soviets: T70 recon mode, M3A1
Ostheer: Scout Car
OKW: Kubel, Jagdpanzer
Brits: AEC, Pyrotechnics tommies
USF: M20, Major, Greyhound
6 Oct 2019, 17:54 PM
#407
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

One of the issues with lategame falls blobs in teamgames is that they basically always get +50% accuracy from their ambush bonus just by a-moving since there's so many craters everywhere and they melt things at any range (unlike commandos, stormtroopers, or partisans). It's a really brainless way to basically always have 150% (compared to their base) accuracy.
6 Oct 2019, 19:41 PM
#408
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

It's a really brainless way to basically always have 150% (compared to their base) accuracy.


Ambush bonus lasts only for like 5 seconds. Enough to burst down a model at close-mid range, but after that it won't re-activate until they are out of combat long enough to get camouflaged again.
6 Oct 2019, 20:09 PM
#409
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884

OKW is the game's infantry faction. They have unquestionably the best infantry in this game at pretty much every level. At the engineer level with Strumpioneers, the mainline infantry level with Volksgrenadiers and Panzerfusilers, and now at the elite infantry level with Obersoldaten and now Fallschrimjagers.

If you spend any time playing USF you'll see this. The only infantry you can roll out to try to deal with them seem to be Paratroopers but with their arrival limited to CP3 it's pretty much too little too late. It's almost like USF should have an MG T0 to even the playing field some what that or make fighting positions cheaper and for God's sake reduce the time it takes to upgrade them.
6 Oct 2019, 22:47 PM
#410
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 20:09 PMCODGUY
OKW is the game's infantry faction. They have unquestionably the best infantry in this game at pretty much every level. At the engineer level with Strumpioneers, the mainline infantry level with Volksgrenadiers and Panzerfusilers , and now at the elite infantry level with Obersoldaten and now Fallschrimjagers.

If you spend any time playing USF you'll see this. The only infantry you can roll out to try to deal with them seem to be Paratroopers but with their arrival limited to CP3 it's pretty much too little too late. It's almost like USF should have an MG T0 to even the playing field some what that or make fighting positions cheaper and for God's sake reduce the time it takes to upgrade them.

All you just said lost validity as soon as you mentioned Pfussies. Literally L2P from start to finish.

Also note, In wich patch Doctrinal units became stock infantry for OKW?
6 Oct 2019, 23:04 PM
#411
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2019, 20:09 PMCODGUY
OKW is the game's infantry faction. They have unquestionably the best infantry in this game at pretty much every level. At the engineer level with Strumpioneers, the mainline infantry level with Volksgrenadiers and Panzerfusilers, and now at the elite infantry level with Obersoldaten and now Fallschrimjagers.

If you spend any time playing USF you'll see this. The only infantry you can roll out to try to deal with them seem to be Paratroopers but with their arrival limited to CP3 it's pretty much too little too late. It's almost like USF should have an MG T0 to even the playing field some what that or make fighting positions cheaper and for God's sake reduce the time it takes to upgrade them.


I stopped reading when you said volks are the best mainlines. Absolute hilarity.
7 Oct 2019, 05:23 AM
#412
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810



Ambush bonus lasts only for like 5 seconds. Enough to burst down a model at close-mid range, but after that it won't re-activate until they are out of combat long enough to get camouflaged again.



Just delete camo bonus

Or Pfaust

7 Oct 2019, 07:33 AM
#413
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

My opinion is that those camo bonuses are not needed across all factions. The sole fact that the opponent's unit is surprised at usually most optimal range for the ambushing unit is enough. There is always the grenade you can throw. I've never been a fan of commandos surprise bonus (I think they have one, correct me if I'm wrong) and their gammon bomb combo. Just too ridiculously powerful, especially against squads with few stock models. The only camo bonus that makes sense is with ost commander but only because you pay to upgrade your units with it. If it was just no cost commander upgrade (like sov at guns) I feel the bonus shouldn't exist either. Alternatively, you could upgrade those ambush units with better camoufalge (at muni cost) and then some bonus would appy.
7 Oct 2019, 08:46 AM
#414
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



how can buff anymore?

this commander had "rework patch" 2 times

What do you want?

A big fucking super 88mm AA cannon? double barrel cannon KT? Me262? V1 rocket?

To ask for something more here is just a whining


if falls wouöld be change into old status...noone would use this commander.

once more: are there any vids as prove from argue able players where we can see: yes they are totally OP and must be nerfed. i didnt see ANY cast or twitch stream where it was like that. Not ONE
7 Oct 2019, 11:33 AM
#415
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

My opinion is that those camo bonuses are not needed across all factions. The sole fact that the opponent's unit is surprised at usually most optimal range for the ambushing unit is enough. There is always the grenade you can throw. I've never been a fan of commandos surprise bonus (I think they have one, correct me if I'm wrong) and their gammon bomb combo. Just too ridiculously powerful, especially against squads with few stock models. The only camo bonus that makes sense is with ost commander but only because you pay to upgrade your units with it. If it was just no cost commander upgrade (like sov at guns) I feel the bonus shouldn't exist either. Alternatively, you could upgrade those ambush units with better camoufalge (at muni cost) and then some bonus would appy.


I disagree. Players should be rewarded for using a unit properly. Ambush units should be very strong when ambushing and if they are just as good when not ambushing (see live falls) they will not be used as such.
7 Oct 2019, 12:10 PM
#416
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Yeah, but ambush units should be able to get forced off by vehicles or there won't be counterplay to that reward.

They have to lose faust.
7 Oct 2019, 13:42 PM
#417
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

Loosing the faust is not enough imo. Their dps is already pretty high to be having a bonus to dps coming out of cover.

I had hp and models evaporate in mere seconds from long range because every tiny bit of cover increases their already more then decent dps. Sending 1 squad retreating in the opening seconds of the engagement the next not much later.
That was just from 2 falls from what i could see.

If they dont loose the faust and or cover bonus their cp and price need a look.
7 Oct 2019, 13:51 PM
#418
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Yeah, but ambush units should be able to get forced off by vehicles or there won't be counterplay to that reward.

They have to lose faust.

Remember CoH1? Those Piat squads had camo just to ambush vehicles.

I am not entirely sure if falls mimic the same mechanic but i see that CoH2 vehicles have a design flaw, lighter vehicles have scouting abilities/stats (ideal to counter camos) but are vulnerable to fausts, but medium/heavies are designed towards combat and are useless to detect smaller squads hiding in camo.

Im just being lazy to ask but did track abilities (like the one on Zis or Su76) reveal camo units?
7 Oct 2019, 14:05 PM
#419
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Yeah, but ambush units should be able to get forced off by vehicles or there won't be counterplay to that reward.

They have to lose faust.


you mean like partisans and tankhunter cons? which can camo, nades AND Handheld AT upgrades?? Do you mean this?
7 Oct 2019, 14:06 PM
#420
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


...
Im just being lazy to ask but did track abilities (like the one on Zis or Su76) reveal camo units?

they make them visible in mini map.
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