Login

russian armor

Fallschirmjäger is very OP!

PAGES (25)down
13 Sep 2019, 11:09 AM
#101
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 136

......... i posted them look above

Btw just so u know, pathfinder have carbine which have almost double the close range dps than pioneers mp 40s , instead of being an asshole do ur test , and check stats

Sometimes ur biased opinion might get in the way

U and kirrik should prove something before saying someone else test are rigged cause they don’t like the outcome

U better check that anti vaxxer /flat earther mentality of “test are only ok if they fit my narrative”

Well, I also have done the pio vs path test and pasted results that you have clearly ignored. I would not doubt your tests if not for a fact that your close range is actually medium range just so you can prove your point.

You can kiss my ass.



Pathfinders have deceptively high close range damage with their carbines.

I know, but the moment they lose 1 or 2 models their close range dps is insignificant, this is why they lose this engagement.
13 Sep 2019, 11:20 AM
#102
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891


Well, I also have done the pio vs path test and pasted results that you have clearly ignored. I would not doubt your tests if not for a fact that your close range is actually medium range just so you can prove your point.

You can kiss my ass.
i didn't ignore them, i simply said path finder can do it , maybe 40% , but they can
13 Sep 2019, 12:48 PM
#103
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 136

Btw just so u know, pathfinder have carbine which have almost double the close range dps than pioneers mp 40s , instead of being an asshole do ur test , and check stats

I have performed this test before and described my testing configuration, have you not ignored it, you wouldn't tell me to do my test. I know the stats, but I also know that this magical CQC dps of pathfinder carbines gets butchered if they lose a model, because the number of carbines goes down from 2->1

i didn't ignore them, i simply said path finder can do it , maybe 40% , but they can

The only scenario when these unupgraded vet 0 squads clash and pathfinders can win vs pioneers at CQC is when the pioneers' owner doesn't close the distance and leaves them at medium range. I will translate it for you, everyone and their moms always close the distance with pioneers, because pioneers' only chance vs any infantry unit is when they are very close because of their weapon profile. When you do your test and let the last models fight at medium range, it's not what a player would do, it's also not CQC, it breaks the test and bends the results. 40% pathfinder win rate is a totally imaginary result that has nothing to do with this CQC engagement. You may have done this unintentionally or you may be manipulating numbers to make some units seem stronger/weaker than they are, especially that it was related to the unupgraded Panzer Fusilier performance at all ranges to which I compared the unupgraded pathfinder fighting performance.

I am sure some of your tests are done properly but not that one. You should also stop insulting others and stop calling them biased if it's you that manipulates the test results.


Speaking from 2v2 perspective about Falls:
Fallschirmjager used to have slightly lower dps at close range than Pgrens and significantly higher long range dps than pgrens, they also benefited from stock camo and ability to faust that Pgrens don't have. Falls can also throw a gas/smoke nade and bundle nade. It was a strong and versatile squad pre-patch that could also be used to ambush enemy snipers, but they were coming late at 3cp and were very expensive. I don't know why all the buffs hit them all at once. They would be fine with just a price drop to 340 like Pgrens. I like when units are available earlier so you can fit them in your army composition, but having several of the doctrinal elite infantry AI specialist in the roster makes the late game horrible for infantry engagements skill-wise. You no longer need to make use of camo and ambush, A-move is more feasible now than before. Time to kill on inf units with such changes is too brutal in my opinion. Before the patch total long range DPS of vet 0 Falls-squad was more or less equal to 5xBARs which was very high. They had excellent DPS at all ranges anyway. New Falls deal even more damage than that. New Falls meta is going to be yet another reason why playing conscripts is not going to pay off. You need a high DPS infantry to kill the enemy before he kills you, or you need rockets. It is JLI all over again.

BAR vs FG42 https://imgur.com/a/zrQLKsf
13 Sep 2019, 13:37 PM
#104
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891


I have performed this test before and described my testing configuration, have you not ignored it, you wouldn't tell me to do my test. I know the stats, but I also know that this magical CQC dps of pathfinder carbines gets butchered if they lose a model, because the number of carbines goes down from 2->1


The only scenario when these unupgraded vet 0 squads clash and pathfinders can win vs pioneers at CQC is when the pioneers' owner doesn't close the distance and leaves them at medium range. I will translate it for you, everyone and their moms always close the distance with pioneers, because pioneers' only chance vs any infantry unit is when they are very close because of their weapon profile. When you do your test and let the last models fight at medium range, it's not what a player would do, it's also not CQC, it breaks the test and bends the results. 40% pathfinder win rate is a totally imaginary result that has nothing to do with this CQC engagement. You may have done this unintentionally or you may be manipulating numbers to make some units seem stronger/weaker than they are, especially that it was related to the unupgraded Panzer Fusilier performance at all ranges to which I compared the unupgraded pathfinder fighting performance.

I am sure some of your tests are done properly but not that one. You should also stop insulting others and stop calling them biased if it's you that manipulates the test results.


Speaking from 2v2 perspective about Falls:
Fallschirmjager used to have slightly lower dps at close range than Pgrens and significantly higher long range dps than pgrens, they also benefited from stock camo and ability to faust that Pgrens don't have. Falls can also throw a gas/smoke nade and bundle nade. It was a strong and versatile squad pre-patch that could also be used to ambush enemy snipers, but they were coming late at 3cp and were very expensive. I don't know why all the buffs hit them all at once. They would be fine with just a price drop to 340 like Pgrens. I like when units are available earlier so you can fit them in your army composition, but having several of the doctrinal elite infantry AI specialist in the roster makes the late game horrible for infantry engagements skill-wise. You no longer need to make use of camo and ambush, A-move is more feasible now than before. Time to kill on inf units with such changes is too brutal in my opinion. Before the patch total long range DPS of vet 0 Falls-squad was more or less equal to 5xBARs which was very high. They had excellent DPS at all ranges anyway. New Falls deal even more damage than that. New Falls meta is going to be yet another reason why playing conscripts is not going to pay off. You need a high DPS infantry to kill the enemy before he kills you, or you need rockets. It is JLI all over again.

BAR vs FG42 https://imgur.com/a/zrQLKsf


..... here some multiple test u can see the range and everything

https://imgur.com/a/7S2zwRI

out of 5 fight 2 were won by pathfinder


on the topic of falls i already shown they are similar to commando with 2 bren

does the 2 bren commando make volks or gren unplayable ?

if u don't believe test and won't do ur own here some simple math

at long range 2 bren alone deal 24+ damage, old fg42 dealt 20, lets' high ball and say the cd and fire rate buff increase the dps to 24 damage, 1 model lost for each falls is - 6 damage while a model lose of a commando will be 0 as bren pass to other (until u are 1 man in that case u lose 12 damage)

at close range 3 smg will deal more damage than 3 fg 42 already , and 2 bren will make up the difference with the fg 42
13 Sep 2019, 14:05 PM
#105
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 136



..... here some multiple test u can see the range and everything

https://imgur.com/a/7S2zwRI

out of 5 fight 2 were won by pathfinder


on the topic of falls i already shown they are similar to commando with 2 bren

does the 2 bren commando make volks or gren unplayable ?

if u don't believe test and won't do ur own here some simple math

at long range 2 bren alone deal 24+ damage, old fg42 dealt 20, lets' high ball and say the cd and fire rate buff increase the dps to 24 damage, 1 model lost for each falls is - 6 damage while a model lose of a commando will be 0 as bren pass to other (until u are 1 man in that case u lose 12 damage)

at close range 3 smg will deal more damage than 3 fg 42 already , and 2 bren will make up the difference with the fg 42


Good, commandos coming at 2CP for 320MP getting AT nade confirmed because that will be balanced just like Falls.

Next time put the pioneers so all units fight close range, just go 5 length units further like any OST player would. The first test from the top is a perfect example of 5 range too far. With pioneers you have to hug your enemy and you are not doing that in these tests giving pathfinders an advantage because the last models alive will fight at ~10 range where pios don't really deal any damage anymore. Can you use the range map next time so we can see the distance and not have to guess due to perspective? It will allow your tests to be more consistent too.

Sorry if my tone got offensive at any point, I assume you have good intentions with your posts and you mean all the best for game balance-wise, but There will be more field presence from Falls than any 3CP elite infantry which is going to affect the infantry engagements. Also thank you for taking time to perform more tests, even if I have objections about the way they were performed.
13 Sep 2019, 14:16 PM
#106
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



Good, commandos coming at 2CP for 320MP getting AT nade confirmed because that will be balanced just like Falls.

Next time put the pioneers so all units fight close range, just go 5 length units further like any OST player would. The first test from the top is a perfect example of 5 range too far. With pioneers you have to hug your enemy and you are not doing that in these tests giving pathfinders an advantage because the last models alive will fight at ~10 range where pios don't really deal any damage anymore. Can you use the range map next time so we can see the distance and not have to guess due to perspective? It will allow your tests to be more consistent too.

Sorry if my tone got offensive at any point, I assume you have good intentions with your posts and you mean all the best for game balance-wise, but There will be more field presence from Falls than any 3CP elite infantry which is going to affect the infantry engagements. Also thank you for taking time to perform more tests, even if I have objections about the way they were performed.
that's why i said up the cost to 340 and if need make fg 42 cost 80 instead of 60 (like 2 bren)

yes hugging each other pio most likely win , but close range is up to 10 range (0-10 close,10-25 mid,25-35 long) for example pio dps caps at 8 range
13 Sep 2019, 14:23 PM
#107
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 136

that's why i said up the cost to 340 and if need make fg 42 cost 80 instead of 60 (like 2 bren)

yes hugging each other pio most likely win , but close range is up to 10 range (0-10 close,10-25 mid,25-35 long) for example pio dps caps at 8 range

I see, but it's difficult to judge distance without any tool, I would suggest using range map for similar tests in the future.

Cheers and have a good day.
13 Sep 2019, 17:41 PM
#108
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1034

I had a sneaking suspicion the Falls were too good just from watching Tightrope's testing in a vacuum environment. Didn't think they'd be busted as the JLI though.

Double LMG paras barely beat the upgraded falls at max range in Tightrope's test. LMG paras are more expensive in mp and munis and they get worse grenades and no fausts, no camo, and no vet 5.

13 Sep 2019, 18:27 PM
#109
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1072

They are good but not OP. The fast vetting isn't really a problem. Mind you they are 4 men and easily countered in the mid game by vehicles.If they are turned down again they will give you nothing over Obers.
13 Sep 2019, 18:46 PM
#110
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891

I had a sneaking suspicion the Falls were too good just from watching Tightrope's testing in a vacuum environment. Didn't think they'd be busted as the JLI though.

Double LMG paras barely beat the upgraded falls at max range in Tightrope's test. LMG paras are more expensive in mp and munis and they get worse grenades and no fausts, no camo, and no vet 5.

but commando with lmg beat them tho ?
13 Sep 2019, 18:49 PM
#111
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 223

What the ekkin ding dong did you do to shrims?

Theyr like insane murder machines now and vets so fast!


GG Balance team!
13 Sep 2019, 19:09 PM
#112
avatar of bulatcr

Posts: 126

I don't get that point from relic and balance team.
Is there a bad unit? Let's make them cost less and also buff every possible way. This is exactly like JLI spam. Srly not learning your own mistakes?
I thought balance changes had to be done step by step.
13 Sep 2019, 19:11 PM
#113
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1429

As I said before ...this complicated way of giving them 2 FGs at 2 Cp and then another 2 FGs after T4 was not a good idea. It makes balancing them too hard. They will always either be too strong in late game or too bad in early game. Just bring back old Fallschirmjägers but make them 2 CP + ambush bonus + slight RA improvement and be done with it. And increase MP price to 360 but no muni upgrades needed.
13 Sep 2019, 19:12 PM
#114
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891

As I said before ...this complicated way of giving them 2 FGs at 2 Cp and then another 2 FGs after T4 was not a good idea. It makes balancing them too hard. They will always either be too strong in late game or too bad in early game. Just bring back old Fallschirmjägers but make them 2 CP + ambush bonus + slight RA improvement and be done with it.
u know what u said makes no sense right ? i do agree in increasing the price but their performance is below double bren commando

and double bren commando have been int he game since 2 years, nobody used them, now we have a bit worse and a bit cheaper 4 men double bren commando they are now op ?
13 Sep 2019, 19:16 PM
#115
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1429

u know what u said makes no sense right ? i do agree in increasing the preice but their performance is bellow double bren commando


How does it not make sense? Right now the Fallschirmjägers become too strong in late game due to 4 buffed FGs and insane veterancy. At 2 CP Falls aren't too good, it's their scalability that is the problem. Why are you bringing double bren commandos into this all the time? Double Bren commandos are almost never used in any higher-ranking games. If they are so OP how come people ignore them? Commandos are used as CQC ambush unit but that's it.
13 Sep 2019, 19:26 PM
#116
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



How does it not make sense? Right now the Fallschirmjägers become too strong in late game due to 4 buffed FGs and insane veterancy. At 2 CP Falls aren't too good, it's their scalability that is the problem. Why are you bringing double bren commandos into this all the time? Double Bren commandos are almost never used in any higher-ranking games. If they are so OP how come people ignore them? Commandos are used as CQC ambush unit but that's it.
cause they literally beat falls at all range for similar price

falls 320 mp and 60 mun

commando 390 mp (pluss reinforce glider would at leats value half the cost of a bunker so commando should be 350mp) and 80 munition for 2 bren

they have more dps and durability at all ranges as shown in tests

so simply increase the price to 340 and 2 fg42 to 80 mun

https://imgur.com/a/it0USWy

ans some more





13 Sep 2019, 19:30 PM
#117
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1429

So you are just ignoring the fact that no one builds them because in cheat mod tests they are very strong?

As I said before they are not being used. And the reason for this is pretty obvious, you already have long-range infantry as UKF and get them for CQC ambushes on maps with lots of shot and sight blockers. If you give Commandos Brens they become significantly weaker in their role as an ambush unit.

Anyway, this is about Fallschirmjägers being OP, not about Commandos, so maybe stop bringing them up all the time.
ddd
13 Sep 2019, 19:38 PM
#118
avatar of ddd

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

Falls dont need truck deployed to have faust and i just won game because of it. This is without taking into consideration how retarded it is for squad this powerful to even have snares.
13 Sep 2019, 19:38 PM
#119
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891

So you are just ignoring the fact that no one builds them because in cheat mod tests they are very strong?

As I said before they are not being used. And the reason for this is pretty obvious, you already have long-range infantry as UKF and get them for CQC ambushes on maps with lots of shot and sight blockers. If you give Commandos Brens they become significantly weaker in their role as an ambush unit.

Anyway, this is about Fallschirmjägers being OP, not about Commandos, so maybe stop bringing them up all the time.
then falls are op compared to what ? i mean u got to have a standard right ?

is it based on the fact that 3 falls beat 1 ranger ?

i mean u can't just say "unit is op cause i said so "

and again if u think they are op make them a copy of the commando with mp40 and the option to upgrade with 2 lmg 34 with a bit less accuracy
13 Sep 2019, 22:02 PM
#120
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1279 | Subs: 2

OKW: Always improving the experience playing this game.
PAGES (25)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest
World Champ '19 - Semi-finals

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Soviets flag Lucky - Cable Sup-port
  • Soviets flag T.R. Olvadi
  • Ostheer flag ZodiAK!
  • Oberkommando West flag CrossFire
uploaded by Olvadi

Board Info

239 users are online: 5 members and 234 guests
Khan, shielatorrez, Vykraznar, qaharpicser, anndhowell
180 posts in the last 24h
1646 posts in the last week
7383 posts in the last month
Registered members: 64090
Welcome our newest member, anndhowell
Most online: 918 users on 27 Oct 2019, 01:03 AM