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Fallschirmjäger is very OP!

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7 Oct 2019, 14:54 PM
#421
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 371



you mean like partisans and tankhunter cons? which can camo, nades AND Handheld AT upgrades?? Do you mean this?


How are those squad perform against infantry?
7 Oct 2019, 15:12 PM
#422
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170



you mean like partisans and tankhunter cons? which can camo, nades AND Handheld AT upgrades?? Do you mean this?


blah. falls are having two roles atm. tank huntr cons and AT partisans have no anti infantry capability. no elite infantry has fausts. i would then argue to give snare to air guards aswell since they cost 380 mp. come on get a grip. falls need to be adjusted.
7 Oct 2019, 15:17 PM
#423
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1


Remember CoH1? Those Piat squads had camo just to ambush vehicles.


Why mention CoH1 Brits in a balance thread? Also, AT specialists.


you mean like partisans?


Only AT Partisans have snares (no frag nades) and those are AT specialists.


and tankhunter cons?


AT specialists..

No other elite infantry has snares, because elite AI infantry should be easily counterable by light vehicles. It being combined with camouflage makes it even worse, because you can't even pick them off at range with vehicles until spotted. They have such excellent AI performance; once upgraded they're equal to Pgrens at low/mid range and much better than G43 Pgrens at long range. It's balance hell if they keep the faust with that performance.
7 Oct 2019, 15:31 PM
#424
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1676



Why mention CoH1 Brits in a balance thread? Also, AT specialists.

Dont get me wrong, i was just picturing the idea, i know its offtopic.

No other elite infantry has snares, because elite AI infantry should be easily counterable by light vehicles. It being combined with camouflage makes it even worse, because you can't even pick them off at range with vehicles until spotted. They have such excellent AI performance; once upgraded they're equal to Pgrens at low/mid range and much better than G43 Pgrens at long range. It's balance hell if they keep the faust with that performance.

I agree with your point here, i would just state that Elite inf =/= Elite AI =/= Elite AT.
Thats the sole reason why a squad has/has not snare.

The new FSJ is versatile and efficient, it doesnt fit OKW too well TBH, what if instead of a snare, FSJ had a small AT mine, mostly a snare/stun effect, rather than damage. FSJ are ambush troops after all, mines fit better the scheme.
7 Oct 2019, 15:35 PM
#425
avatar of griezell

Posts: 119

reduce the bonus they got and have them not go invis in 1 or 2 sec in cover right afer they moved. make going invis have a set up time like 3 sec in cover takes 3 sec to get invis. it sould not work like invis of commandos or snipers.
7 Oct 2019, 15:44 PM
#426
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 839

No other elite infantry has snares, because elite AI infantry should be easily counterable by light vehicles.


What about Guards, Rangers, Paratroopers and Panzergrenadiers? Guards have AT rifles and snares, paras/rangers can upgrade with elite zooks and pgrens can upgrade with panzershreks. Why are those elite infantry not countered easily by light vehicles, but Falls are an issue?
7 Oct 2019, 15:47 PM
#427
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1676

Guards AT rifle snare is more like a soft snare, one used to buy time, falls could use something like that instead of pfaust if a mine is not a solution...
7 Oct 2019, 15:58 PM
#428
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 839

Guards AT rifle snare is more like a soft snare, one used to buy time, falls could use something like that instead of pfaust if a mine is not a solution...


Have them lay riegel mines and take away snares. That would work best imo.
7 Oct 2019, 16:36 PM
#429
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1


What about Guards


I'd agree a mega counter-all blob of Guards is not best for balance, but atleast Guards have to pay 75 munitions to gain access to snare and you can get close to them to trade effectively with infantry.

In comparison, how do you approach a camoed Fall squad in cover? Light vehicles get snared if they try to reveal them / force them away and infantry can't effectively engage them at any range.


(Zook) Rangers, (Zook) Paratroopers, (Schreck) Panzergrenadiers


These are all AT specialists with incomparable dps compared to Falls. You invest allot of munitions, give up a large chunk of your AI and the possiblity to get AI upgrades.
7 Oct 2019, 16:42 PM
#430
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3215 | Subs: 1

I personally don't think there is issue in falls having a faust. It wasn't an issue before, only difference now is that they are over tuned. Dial them back and make up the difference in valiant assault, which is posed to be getting reworked.
Make em ambush troops normally)(like they were, although now then have better vet) and able to Assault with VA
7 Oct 2019, 17:53 PM
#431
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 662



I disagree. Players should be rewarded for using a unit properly. Ambush units should be very strong when ambushing and if they are just as good when not ambushing (see live falls) they will not be used as such.


I understand. I just tought that a surprise attack from cover by AI close quarter specialist will be deadly anyway, especially when supplemented with a grenade. Looking at how good they are at dealing dmg they don't really need extra boost. It's sort of typical doubling on good ideas, which often turns out cheesy. Ambush idea and camo is really cool but why extra damage if the surprise and wiping potential are already there. Or maybe it's just me.

I agree with you on the snare though. They are 4 men squishy sqad and the ambush at surprise is cool. Especially that tanks need to be crippled anyway to get engine crit. It is good for lights, which is ok. Wish ostheer could have similar shock units.
7 Oct 2019, 18:28 PM
#432
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6308 | Subs: 1



What about Guards, Rangers, Paratroopers and Panzergrenadiers? Guards have AT rifles and snares, paras/rangers can upgrade with elite zooks and pgrens can upgrade with panzershreks. Why are those elite infantry not countered easily by light vehicles, but Falls are an issue?


Guards: the snare is not permanent, can be break down with smoke and requires the unit to be locked down in place. From all units in game, they are the ultimately jack of all trades. Their AI is good, but not excels and it's mostly defensive. Same with their AT. From all elites, they are the least Elite and the closest to been a main line infantry and seen in the past, which can become a problem.

Rangers/Paras/PG: the moment they equip a zook/schreck, they end up been useless as AI.

Falls doesn't have to carry a model with a panzerfaust, which get's moved from model to model, further reducing potential DPS as the squad starts to die.


You can play around units carrying AT weapons, specially with pushing and crushing. Snares which incur in engine damage are dead sentences for vehicles.
7 Oct 2019, 20:12 PM
#433
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13762 | Subs: 7



you mean like partisans and tankhunter cons? which can camo, nades AND Handheld AT upgrades?? Do you mean this?

Yeah, tank hunter cons and partisans are wiping squads left and right.
7 Oct 2019, 21:07 PM
#434
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3215 | Subs: 1



I understand. I just tought that a surprise attack from cover by AI close quarter specialist will be deadly anyway, especially when supplemented with a grenade. Looking at how good they are at dealing dmg they don't really need extra boost. It's sort of typical doubling on good ideas, which often turns out cheesy. Ambush idea and camo is really cool but why extra damage if the surprise and wiping potential are already there. Or maybe it's just me.

I agree with you on the snare though. They are 4 men squishy sqad and the ambush at surprise is cool. Especially that tanks need to be crippled anyway to get engine crit. It is good for lights, which is ok. Wish ostheer could have similar shock units.

I wonder if it's possible to perhaps instead of a dps buff (or maybe just a smaller one) it's possible to inflict a debuff on the targeted squad that reduces their own output making ambush units more durable in an ambush vs relying on raw firepower alone.
8 Oct 2019, 03:36 AM
#435
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 573



I stopped reading when you said volks are the best mainlines. Absolute hilarity.


Whenever I play ez mode v2.0 (OKW) my Volks always slaughter everyone elses mainlines except Tommies and Penals (if you consider Penals a mainline). Grens are really good too they might be now better actually.

The ranking for mainlines as far as over all effectiveness probably are:

1 - Grenadiers, barely take any damage, easy and cheap upgrades that outpreform BARs and Brens, hard counter to Conscripts and Rifleman

2 - Volksgrens, good upgrades with no side techs that come early which gives them an edge over opponents nullifying any advantages they would otherwise have

3 - Tommies used to be #1 before being beaten with the nerf hammer, weapon upgrades require a side tech despite their poor preformance, still okay vetted

4 - Cheap Soviet infantry with 6 men, not great combat wise but have decent upgrades with certain doctrines

5 - Riflemen stock preformance better than before, over all preformance very poor for 280 MP 28 reinforcement cost and 150 MP 15 fuel side tech and 120 munitions for double BARs just to keep up with Volksgren preformance, also no grenades without an additional side tech of 150 MP and 15 fuel, and no snare without vet 1. Perhaps the most hamstrung infantry unit in the game.
8 Oct 2019, 04:41 AM
#436
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 75

Im sick of this falls spam cheese. Please don't say l2p. Cause they keep on annihilating my soviet infantry. And specialist infantry like shocks and guards with dp upgrades. They also have snares. So yeah. Also come at 2 cp. Cost 340. Yeah soviets are fucked.

If i may ask why do shocks and guards cost 360 then? Why not standardize the cost? 6 men? Soviets die quicker. Idk y. But they do.



I wish there was counter to them while they were in camo on your points and you know they are there, but nope there is no counter. They can hold fire as long as they want and then rip apart all your infantry. This is really deadly for brits as well lol since they are so awful out of cover and on the move.
8 Oct 2019, 04:43 AM
#437
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 75

One of the issues with lategame falls blobs in teamgames is that they basically always get +50% accuracy from their ambush bonus just by a-moving since there's so many craters everywhere and they melt things at any range (unlike commandos, stormtroopers, or partisans). It's a really brainless way to basically always have 150% (compared to their base) accuracy.


Exactly there need to be a way for all factions to spot camo units with a designated unit.
8 Oct 2019, 04:45 AM
#438
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 815

They could make sweepers detect at a larger radius.

The m20, M3, and UC each have extended detect radius. Bit hard to use vs fausting falls though
8 Oct 2019, 04:45 AM
#439
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 75

I think the issue with Falls is camouflage, which is an issue with all camouflaged units since there is no way for them to be detected unless a unit gets too close to them or you use flares. To that end, I think each faction should get designated units that can spot camouflaged units from double the distance of normal ones.

Soviets: T70 recon mode, M3A1
Ostheer: Scout Car
OKW: Kubel, Jagdpanzer
Brits: AEC, Pyrotechnics tommies
USF: M20, Major, Greyhound


Indeed, there need to be a counter to the camo camp lol, it feels so obnoxious
8 Oct 2019, 04:50 AM
#440
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 75

They could make sweepers detect at a larger radius.

The m20, M3, and UC each have extended detect radius. Bit hard to use vs fausting falls though



Lol yeah UC get popped in 2 seconds ^
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